Bush Pushes China on Religious Freedoms

Too bad Bush didn't have guts to attend an illegal house church in China. Attending a government sanctioned three-self church is no big feat. Everyone one in China is allowed to attend and worship at such a church.How about issuing strict economic and trade sanctions until all pastor are set free? Now that might make a statement.

Too bad Bush didn't have guts to attend an illegal house church in China. Attending a government sanctioned three-self church is no big feat. Might want to think about that one again...How could he even if he wanted to?

Mike,I understand what you are saying Mike, but you are missing what I am trying to say. Bush going to a three-self church is absolutely a slap and spit in the face to the house church Christians and the pastors who are sitting in prisons and labor camps at this very moment for standing up against the three-self church. It is times like these that we should all hang our heads in shame for being Americans and having a man like Bush represent us as our president - for he is in terrible error endorsing the very thing the Christians in China are standing up against and refusing to be part of. How dare President Bush attend a communist approved three-self church. We need to stand with our brothers and sisters in Christ who are being persecuted not slap and spit in their faces by endorsing what they are standing up against. What an embarrassment! :oops:

I can think of only one word. Politics. Well, two. Police. Say buhbuy house church with a presidential visit. Not smart. And pressing a visible religious base on TV according to the most powerful country on earth... well, I'd say its about the most the man can do. Kudos, Mr. Bush.

Quote:"I'd say its about the most the man can do."How about saying "We are stopping all trade with China PERIOD! We refuse to do ANY business with a country who persecutes Christians!!" and not endorsing the very thing the imprisoned pastors and church members are in jail for standing up against and thus spitting in there faces? Is slapping the faces of persecuted Christians by endorsing what they are persecuted for standing against the best you think you a man can do?It has nothing to do with political affiliation. For I have none. Republicans are just as bad as democrats and democrats are just as bad as republican, both are evil to the core. I would rebuke any politician who dared do such a thing to persecuted brother and sisters in Christ regardless of their political affiliation.

I'm not going to get into a political discussion about the President. I support him but realize that his actions speak louder than anything he might say.In China, the persecution clearly separates the sheep from the goats. They know that if they follow Jesus they're going to have to deny themselves and take up their cross and follow him. It's their great joy and I thank God for that the Holy Spirit is moving mightily in China.In fact, many of them are praying that we experience persecution so we can know the unspeakable joy of being sold out to Jesus.America is not a Christian nation but unfortunately it is a very religious nation. Enough said...

bro PatrickHow about saying "We are stopping all trade with China PERIOD! We refuse to do ANY business with a country who persecutes Christians!!" and not endorsing the very thing the imprisoned pastors and church members are in jail for standing up against and thus spitting in there faces? Is slapping the faces of persecuted Christians by endorsing what they are persecuted for standing against the best you think you a man can do?we can't afford to stop doing business in china. most american companies which make things we need have set up shop there. this is how we get stuff cheap by having things made in palces like china, india, taiwan coz labour is cheap, setting up costs are cheap for factories and stuff and there isn't as much in terms of environmental hoops to jump through either. look at the manufacturing labels of the things you buy and you'll see a lot of them are made in china.walmart buys a lot of things from there to sell it to us cheap so we're in a bind. if we boycott china, someone here is going to have to set up manufacturing facilities which will cost a lot making our products more expensive and few people will be able to afford them which makes that initial set up investment a poor one. America doesn't do much in terms of manufacturing any more as in the days after ww2 but we're a consumer driven economy now which is part of why the economy will collapse soon. i'm unsure really what bush can do here but i can bet that most people in America wouldn't want to give up getting something from walmart for $3 if it means getting it for $5 or $6 for any reason.let us fall on our faces and repent, repent and repent some more coz what our brothers in China are experiencing there will be upon us too. Prepare us Lord!AMEN

Quote:"i'm unsure really what bush can do here but i can bet that most people in America wouldn't want to give up getting something from walmart for $3 if it means getting it for $5 or $6 for any reason."How sick and twisted can a nation become. How embarrassing for anyone who is an American and especially the American church. :-?

How sick and twisted can a nation become. How embarrassing for anyone who is an American and especially the American church. How proper have we become to deny that we have any redeeming value at all. Even though the American church supports missions more than any other. Even though a man who cannot actively incite rebellion in another "friendly" country is attempting to press a weakening political doctrine in order to gain lawful grounds for that same professed church.Even though I live in the most blessed country on this earth, let me so thoroughly deny it.Ladies and gentlemen, let us all move, sell all we own and follow after our God well into places we have yet to imagine. We are indeed rich young men.

I understand what you are saying Mike, but you are missing what I am trying to say. Bush going to a three-self church is absolutely a slap and spit in the face to the house church Christians and the pastors who are sitting in prisons and labor camps at this very moment for standing up against the three-self church. It is times like these that we should all hang our heads in shame for being Americans and having a man like Bush represent us as our president - for he is in terrible error endorsing the very thing the Christians in China are standing up against and refusing to be part of. How dare President Bush attend a communist approved three-self church. We need to stand with our brothers and sisters in Christ who are being persecuted not slap and spit in their faces by endorsing what they are standing up against. Flipping it around that way, I cannot argue with that brother. He would have had to come up with quite the Michael Jackson disguise to do the former you proposed, but this is a good point you make.Note habakkuk3In fact, many of them are praying that we experience persecution so we can know the unspeakable joy of being sold out to Jesus.The rubber mets the road...America is not a Christian nation but unfortunately it is a very religious nation. Enough said...And well said brother.

bro Patricki feel you and agree with you in Spirit that we have become a sick and twisted nation. However i praise the Lord that He is raising up mighty men and women for His work. Those that stay true to the gospel of Jesus Christ shall be refined by the fire of the Lord's judgement/correction and the chaff shall burn away. i pray we repent, repent and repent some more and take hold of a Holy God.AMEN

bro habakkukIn fact, many of them are praying that we experience persecution so we can know the unspeakable joy of being sold out to Jesus.bro as are even some here. we wonder how the jihadists are so ready to die for their cause and yet we forget that the church at it's inception had the very same fervor concerning Christ. it is all coming full circle and i pray also that we experience this persecution that we may too be sold out to Jesus just as our brethren in China are and just as the church was at it's begininning. Lord God refine us with Your fire!AMEN

I hate to say it becasue people might take me wrong but I mentioned it my sermon today -- But I pray that God will purify his church -- Even if that means, and it probably does, persecution. I would rather be imprisoned for Christ in jail than be prisoner of a well to do, lukewarm church anymore. If they are praying that persecution will come to us so we can know Christ in truth, I guess I must join them because I agree.Blessings.

In fact, many of them are praying that we experience persecution so we can know the unspeakable joy of being sold out to Jesus.Matt. 6:13 And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evilToo bad Bush didn't have guts to attend an illegal house church in China. Attending a government sanctioned three-self church is no big feat. Everyone one in China is allowed to attend and worship at such a church.I thank and praise our God for a president that names the name of Jesus Christ and is the only president in the world that claims he is born again.He whent to church in a athiestic country, publicly. Yes we can say alot against him not meeting our standards or expectaions, or not attacking the heart of the matter. Let us keep some scriptures in view when we talk about our president. 1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.For us the president1 Tim 2:1-3 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;2 Peter 2:10-12 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;Defenition of dignities:The respect and honor associated with an important position. A high office or rank.The quality or state of being worthy of esteem or respect.

1 Tim 2:1-3 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men;For kings, and for all that are in authority;I have to be honest with you all I have not prayed for our president as I ought. But let us pray for him and be obedient to the scriptures give thanks to God for him. And also to give thanks for the president before men in our conversation.

hredii,From what you are saying we are never allowed to criticize the actions of any political leaders ever. I have heard this position before and I respect it. Now for me since I have no political affiliation I happen to think both Bill Clinton and George Bush are equally terrible, evil and disgusting men. It would be a shame, in my opinion, for either of theses men to call themselves by the name of Christ, and agree with you that we should not spend our time bashing political leaders continually, but to comment on recent actions in the news I feel is fine. Now the only way you can tell someone else based on scripture to not comment negatively on the action of our current president without being a hypocrite, is to not have every commented negatively on the actions of any of our presidents. Did you ever comment negatively on the actions of Bill Clinton? How about Ted Kennedy or John Kerry - both prominent political leaders? Did you give thanks for Bill Clinton before men in your conversations when he was president?This would also have to apply all world leader both past and present, not just current American presidents. Have you ever commented negatively on the actions of any of the following? Do you give thanks before men in your conversations of the following Kings and leaders?Hu Jintoa - ChinaFidel Castro - CubaAdolph Hitler StalinMussoliniAyatollah Kommani - IranKim Il Sung - North KoreaMuammar Qaddafi - LibiaNow I understand that all of these men are in position of authority because they were allowed to be there or put there by God, for His purpose, even if we don't understand what that purpose is. Jesus said Pilate and Herod were given there authority by God and these were both certainly evil men. Nebuchaadnezzar was evil and put in power by God specifically to bring judgment against Israel and there may be an evil leader who was put in power to specifically bring judgment against American. But I don't think that Scripture teaches that we are never allowed to comment negatively about the actions of any political leader.If your position is that we are never to comment negatively on the actions of any political leader and you have never made (or repent for and stopped) any negative comments on any of the post mentioned men, then I respect your position and will prayerfully search for God to revile to me His will on this matter. But, if have talked negatively about any of the above mentioned men and have not given thanks for them in your conversations before men, then I would have to humbly and respectful submit that you are being a hypocrite. I am not trying to be disrespectful or to condemn you, but in Christian love encourage you to remove the plank from your own eye, if in fact this is the case. Now again I highly respect the opinion that we are never to talk bad about any political leader and would like to hear from anyone who holds this opinion. What I have a problem with is people who bad mouthed Bill Clinton or Sodom Hussain at every chance they get or with no thought of the matter, but pull out these Scriptures to stop anyone who comments negatively on the actions of a leader of their particular political persuasion.

From what you are saying we are never allowed to criticize the actions of any political leaders ever.Let us keep some scriptures in view when we talk about our president. 1 Peter 2:17 Honour all men. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honour the king.For us the president1 Tim 2:1-3 I exhort therefore, that, first of all, supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giving of thanks, be made for all men; For kings, and for all that are in authority; that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and honesty. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Saviour;2 Peter 2:10-12 But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. But these, as natural brute beasts, made to be taken and destroyed, speak evil of the things that they understand not; and shall utterly perish in their own corruption;I am exorting us to have our conversation acording to scripture. nothing more nothing less.2 Peter 3:11 Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,