TODAY'S "UNSAVED" CHURCH

Here is a great article I ran across recently. Any comments would be great.TODAY'S "UNSAVED" CHURCH It is an interesting fact that Charles Finney spent his entire ministry preaching to professing Christians. And yet he was called the greatest 'evangelist'! What he was doing was evangelizing the church people - because he found that most of them were not living in a state of true salvation at all. The church was 'unsaved'! Thus his first calling was to the believers of his day - to see them converted. -Just like Jesus and the apostles were called first to the Jews - the 'believers' of their time. Finney found himself preaching piercing salvation messages his whole life in church buildings, Bible Colleges and so-on. The "Christians" must be saved.Actually, you see this pattern in most Revivals down the centuries. In many cases, what Revival was, was the church coming into true SALVATION for the first time. They THOUGHT they were saved before, but they had been under a delusion. When the 'Revivalist' arrived and preached to them, suddenly they saw that they were undone and in a lost state, and multitudes were converted. Revival almost always begins with the church. I believe it is no different today, especially in America where church attendance is very high (-around 40 percent) - the highest percentage in the world. Everyone agrees that there is a lot of 'nominal' Christianity and 'social' Christianity going on - as well as a huge number of people who attend churches where they are told they are 'saved' when clearly they are not.It is difficult not to come to the conclusion that most of these churches are like "holding pens" for the damned - telling people that they are 'OK', when in reality they are headed for destruction. Personally, I find this very hard to take. What will God do to the preachers who are lulling the flock to sleep in this way? And when will men be found who will dare to tell the "Christians" that many are not 'saved' at all - but still in their sins? -Such is the role of the true prophets of God. Such is the role of the coming "John the Baptists". Of course, Finney was hated and despised by church men for saying such things. How DARE he preach in such a way that assumed that many 'fine church members' were unsaved? How offensive and ill- mannered! But Finney had such a passion and a burden to REACH THE 'CHRISTIANS' with the gospel. -And this was exactly what God had called him to do. Today we see exactly the same thing in the West as Finney saw in his day. We see a church that is very largely UNSAVED. A truly "saved" church (in the New Testament sense) behaves and looks and sounds utterly different to what we have today. Even in Pentecostal/Charismatic circles we often find many "previously-saved-but-no-longer-walking-in-it" believers. Friends, this is not a state of 'salvation'. The Bible is very clear that only those who CONTINUE in New Testament Christianity and who "overcome" will be saved. These people are lost. You are either walking as a 'new creature' in love with Christ or you are not. If you are not walking in it then do not assume you are "saved" - no matter what some preacher tells you. It is all or nothing with God. The Bible tells us to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". I would be very surprised if more than a quarter of the West's so-called "Spirit-filled" believers are actually walking with a clean heart before God. What on earth do they think will happen to them on Judgement Day? Added to this, we have millions upon millions of 'mainline' believers who literally NEVER get the opportunity to find out about "FULL" salvation. -The Holy Spirit is never made real to them, and many have never been fully BAPTIZED in water, either. Now, we have already discussed elsewhere how people became Christians in the Bible. We know that there were THREE THINGS that always needed to happen when someone wanted to become a Christian in the New Testament: (1) Repentance (2) Water Baptism (3) Being filled with the Holy Spirit.-Every time, these were the three things that happened STRAIGHT AWAY. (-See Acts 2:37-41, Acts 8:12-20, Acts 10:44-48, Acts 19:1-6, Acts 22:16, Heb 6:1-2, Mk 16:16-18, etc.) As I have said before, the doctrine of "Asking Jesus into your heart" does not exist in the Bible, and personally I would come very close to calling it a lie from the pit of hell, because it falsely assures people that they are "saved" just because they have 'prayed a little prayer'. It is very dishonest and totally unscriptural. So we know that a basic "New Testament Christian" is someone who has: (1) Repented (2) Been Baptized (immersed) in water, and (3) Been filled with the Holy Spirit So how on earth do we reach all these vast millions who are being duped with this half-Christianity of "Asking Jesus into your heart" - but never hear the full gospel? What on earth can be done to get this message through to them? This is a burden that is very much on my heart. And I am convinced that only the coming "John-the-Baptist" ministries will have the anointing to break through the walls of 'Religion' to reach these people with the truth. We are talking about millions upon millions of precious souls here. And they are people who DO BELIEVE in God. But they have been lied-to, and the real truth has been denied them. I am convinced that the coming harvest will BEGIN IN THE CHURCH. It will begin with converting the "CHRISTIANS". -This has always been God's order. "First in Jerusalem, then in Judea...." I am deeply burdened for the church in the West. Let the new "Charles Finney's" arise. Let the trumpet sound go forth. The message of PIERCING REPENTANCE must be heard in the land once again. And the idol of "Mammon" must surely be one of it's key targets. I am convinced that such prophets must arise for Revival to come to the West in these days. "For the word of God is quick and powerful, sharper than any two-edged sword." -May this mighty sword be brought to bear on the walls of Religion and false 'assurance' in these days. by: Andrew Strom

Here's a brief quote from William Law (from the 18th century) which summarizes the article quite well. "Yet the church is filled with professing Christians whose faith has never gone beyond a conviction that the words of Scripture are true. They believe in the Christ of the Bible, but do not know Him personally. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit is sound doctrine to their minds, but their lives are empty of His manifest power either to overcome the power of sin within, or to convert others to Christ."This was a prophetic word and it certainly describes the church in the United States. Pastor James in Chapter 2:19 said "Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble."For many people, their belief is no more than a mental assent. Bonhoeffer referred to this as "cheap grace."

I think that article was true. I can rant on and on about the weakness and powerless chuch that blends in with the wickedness of this world but im sure we can all see that. all we have to do is read the book of acts and you can come to the conclusion that either the book of acts is one big fat lie, or we have buried our standards. Revival almost always begins with the church.1 Peter 4:17 "For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?"I think that verse sums up that article very well. :-) something that has just been burning on my heart since i have been born again is that the church needs to pull the plank out of their own eye before they try to go out and evangelise! 1 Corinth 9:14 "Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel." bars are not going to start shutting down unless the professing Christians get out of them. Murder is not going to decrease unless the professing Christians stop hating and learn to love, teen pregnancy is not going to decrese unless the professing Christians start treating girls as their sisters. revival isnt going to start unless we learn to live the gospel and pray without ceasing.

Hello ChristisKing,Thank you for sharing this article. I found this article to be very saddening but completely accurate. I have independently come to the same conclusions as the author. I believe the direction God is leading me in order to combat this situation is to so give my life to God that I will be able to say, If you want to be a Christian then follow me, watch how I live and you will see God's will for you. It's not going to be words but the living God actually dwelling in peoples hearts that will convince people that they have embraced a false Gospel. They already have the same words that we do, but the words mean something different to them. They will have to see the reality of a living Christ undeniably shining through peoples lives. Not just that he can do it or will do it, but that he is doing it in our lives.

How many christians in church did not Jesus say Lu 18:8 - Show ContextI tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?I think this is a clear statement. It does not say all who believe in the Lord Jesus, it just says faith. Jesus is coming for his bride I do not believe that every part of his body is different.It is an interesting thought how much of the church is not saved!!!They beleve in it but are actually not living it day in and day out. I am including me Jesus please purify me and make me yours. Honestly how much? Will we get a big suprise in heaven!!

Hi Greg,I agree with your assessment and comments concerning this article, but I would like to pose a few questions to you and the other SI brothers and sisters. 1. Do you not consider this a crisis hour in America right now?2. How much worse do you think it can get, how more corrupt could the church become?3. Don’t you think that the vast majority of Spirit filled Christians have already shut out the burden of the Holy Spirit to live uncompromising lives?I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying Greg, just trying to get a picture of what point you and the other SI brothers and sisters feel we are at.

Awesome article! This has been on my heart for some time now. Most of today's preaching and teaching amounts to nothing more than theological candy. Where is the Holy Ghost conviction that drives men to their knees in repentance?My question is: Where are the Spirit-filled Christians? Personally, I don't know of any--and after reading John R. Rice's little book, "How Great Soul Winners Were Filled With the Holy Ghost," I would have to honestly say myself included. I don't think that Andrew Strom's point is that God is going to raise up just one, single "John the Baptist," but rather, that He is raising up an army of them. These are the true Spirit-filled believers; those who have been baptized in the Holy Ghost and fire!I'm a teacher and lay-preacher at my church, and this is the greatest need that I see in our congregation--there are so many who believe that they are saved, but they do not even know what salvation is. To them, it is merely the intellectual belief that their sins are forgiven and they are going to heaven when they die. I dare say that most could not even define what things such as conviction, repentance, faith, and love mean, much less give testimony or eveidence to having experience them in their own lives.I have been crying out for God to baptize me in the Holy Ghost and raise me (and others) up as examples to this generation of what true Christianity really is. The greatest need of our time is for true examples of Christianity. Where are the Finney's and the Wesley's of our day. I often wonder who will they be writing books about 200 years from now from our generation? Who in our generation will leave behind a legacy for future generations of believers study and model their ministries after--The Joel Osteens? The Paula Whites? The Rick Warrens? I don't think so!Oh God, give us leaders who can say as the apostle Paul, "Follow me, as I follow Christ."

Wow, great article.Unfortunately, it's all true. Len Ravenhill said something like "God will judge America or He'll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorah!" And their blood will be on our hands.John 15:2 "Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit."Ouch! I think I'm gonna go back to the prosperity gospel! Martin ;-)

1. Do you not consider this a crisis hour in America right now?Yes I do. God has been very gracious to this country for many years now and I can but see that every year we linger is grace from God at this point. Our sin asa nation has gotten not only great but brazen in its expression to others. 2. How much worse do you think it can get, how more corrupt could the church become? Depends on what church you are talking about -- Christ's bride isn't corrupt at all but how many in this nation belong to her. The visible church can get a corrupt as God allows until he deals with it for his name sake.3. Don’t you think that the vast majority of Spirit filled Christians have already shut out the burden of the Holy Spirit to live uncompromising lives? OK. Let me paraphrase Ravenhill (I think) 'How can one call oneself Spirit filled not be burdened with the lost and passion for holiness'.A better question for me is how many people are actually Spirit filled beleivers? Not many me thinks.Blessings.

Quote:“'How can one call oneself Spirit filled not be burdened with the lost and passion for holiness'.A better question for me is how many people are actually Spirit filled believers? Not many me thinks.”Well said - I agree - questioned 3. is much better when rephrased in this way. I do think though that people can be convicted and burdened by the Holy Spirit and quickly shut the Holy Spirit out and refuse to listen when the hard things are asked or the ugly things are brought to light. They look for some one to pet their head or tickle their ears and quench the conviction and power of Holy Spirit. Thus the power of the Holy Spirit in their lives is diminished and eventually fads away into nothingness. On the other hand some people can become broken and humbled and fall to their face in repentance when these hard things (take up your cross, forsake all, die to self, sell all you have, etc.) or ugly things are brought to light and repent and strive out of love for Jesus to walk more holy and live more righteous and do the harder things we are asked to do. This results in the Holy Spirit growing and becoming more powerful in our lives. What do think? Is this how it works in many cases?Quote:“Len Ravenhill said something like "God will judge America or He'll have to apologize to Sodom and Gomorrah!" And their blood will be on our hands.”I agree and have been trying to get this point across in the forum for many months. Their (the unsaved church) blood will be on our hands. Not just the lost that we may turn our back on and ignore, but the “seekers” at the mega church down the road or the “word of faith” people commanding God to give them the money on the other side of town and the corner community church christians who are being sold a humanistic, sloppy agape, free grace, sin your way to heaven message and this is all they have ever heard. For many who think they are christians all they have ever heard is a false gospel and a false Jesus and they think it is the real thing. Having been shown the truth, these peoples blood will be on our hands if we don’t reach out to them and stand up against the pastors and teachers who are lying to them.Quote:“I don't think that Andrew Strom's point is that God is going to raise up just one, single "John the Baptist," but rather, that He is raising up an army of them. These are the true Spirit-filled believers; those who have been baptized in the Holy Ghost and fire!”I think you a right - may their be some here on this forum and some who read this post who cry out to God and are being prepared for this purpose as they read this? I hope and pray so? Quote:“I have been crying out for God to baptize me in the Holy Ghost and raise me (and others) up as examples to this generation of what true Christianity really is. The greatest need of our time is for true examples of Christianity.”This is my prayer also brother. May their be many, many, many more who make this their pray and their hearts cry!!!

Hi...Yes the church is in a sorry state.A spiritual vacuum has been created and is filled with all types of false prophets and gimmics. I do take heart in the fact that for thousands of years the chuch has been assulted by many things and yet the remnant remains, unshakeable and steadfast. Howcome I can read the churh fathers and my spirit leaps out with them in joy.Ha.ha..preserved by God. Satan is a lost cause and will forever remain so. cheers.

would even say as Ravenhill said its not an crisis hour but an crisis minute, we are nearing the end its time now to repent.Amen Brother Greg, this is the crisis hour. I pray that the Holy Spirit opens our eyes to see the day we're living in.I heard a sermon from Pastor Wilkerson a few months ago and he said something to the effect that "we're on grace time."This was back in May I believe. Around that time my wife had a vision and all she saw was a big clock and the clock had stopped. I prayed about this for a couple of weeks and then I ran into an article stating that Big Ben had stopped for around 90 minutes or so back in May.The Lord told me that judgment was due but God was holding it back for a short season due to his mercy. (I'm a bit uncomfortable with prophetic utterances but please take it to the Lord in prayer.)

"God willing I am going to be starting an prayer meeting intiative to have brothers and sisters on SI to start prayer groups in their churches, homes, etc for the purpose of praying for genuine revival."Count me in brother. I think thats a great idea. :-) "The Lord told me that judgment was due but God was holding it back for a short season due to his mercy. (I'm a bit uncomfortable with prophetic utterances but please take it to the Lord in prayer.)"O LORD, I have heard thy speech, and was afraid: O LORD, revive thy work in the midst of the years, in the midst of the years make known; in wrath remember mercy Habakkuk 3:2Martin

Blessings to you brother. That scripture is the reason for my screen name. :-D "In wrath, remember mercy."

There's no doubt about the truth of this article. God's church is something quite different (and quite smaller)than what is percieved on the outside. I certainly don't need to add on to what everyone else has said.But I did notice something said in the article that has come up to me that I can't reconcile in my heart- water baptism being a requirement of salvation. 1 Peter 3:21- "Corresponding to that , baptism now saves you- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience- through the resurerrection of Jesus Christ,"When I look at the Bible as a whole, I find that God is only concerned about the hearts of men. He sets up many 'rules' through the OT, but only to be outward symbols of what He's really looking for from the hearts of people. Jesus's time with the pharisees is plain evidence of it.I had a guy meet with me one time (I believe from a Church of God) and tried to convince me that a person is reborn when he gets dunked under water. I asked a couple of obvious questions like "then what would've even led a person to risk their lives with with public water baptism back in the day?" and "what about the theif on the cross?" and "so if you're in jail and can't get to any water for 10 years.....do you have to wait to be born again and hopefully not die before you find your first puddle to dive into?" and "how does the cleansing of your flesh change your soul's condition?"I didn't mean any sarcasm by it, but the thought that the miracle of being born again is brought about by your physical flesh being dunked under water, well, it just doesn't add up to the God I know or the message of the whole Bible. The interesting thing is, as much as this guy was zealous for his church and 'preaching the word', he didn't seem to know God at all. So I asked him to tell me how God changed his life. When he was done his story added up to "well, I started going to church and I've just really gotten into it." But as I continued to talk with the guy, he just didn't know God. He only knew particular things out of the Bible that were interesting to him....and even those, he was always blind to the whole point.Anyway, my point is this. When I read the Bible and even check my heart, I can only see that water baptism is an outward, symbolic demonstration of the true spiritual baptism into the grave of Christ. We do have to die before we can be reborn. John the Baptist himself said that, though he baptizes in water, the One who is coming will bring the true baptism of fire and the Holy Spirit. (paraphrase)I have to believe that our salvation stands on wheather or not we are baptized (submerged) unto to death with Christ and reborn. I cannot imagine that our salvation is pending on an outward action or ritual. I'm not saying that water baptism is to be shunned away and forgotten....but rather looked at for what significence it was really meant to carry. And I don't mean theology. I mean, "what is in God's heart here?" It is actually kind of a mystery to me because of how little it is mentioned in the Bible. But I do know that when you look at the what God is saying throughout the Bible, His concerns are always about the heart of a man towards Him......not the outward workings of the flesh. The Kingdom of God is spiritual. It can't be entered by works of the flesh. I think this is probably obvious to almost everyone whose reading this, but I keep seeing water baptism being brought up as an entrance into the Kingdom of God and nobody really talks about it.Maybe I'm a little sensitive on this subject. Probably because of this. A while after talking to that guy, I found out that one of my work mates (a truly lost soul) was going to their meetings because his life was a wreck and he was looking for a way out. After awhile he told me what the pastor said to him. "Okay, Brandon (the sinner), this is how it is. WE are your base. And we're going to raise you to the level where you're ready to get water baptized." A gospel I'd never heard before. Brandon asked me, "Dude it just seems weird to me. Why do they want to water baptize me so bad?"It troubled me to see people who didn't know the true baptism(or God) try to convince a lost soul that all he needed was to be dunked under water.......and THEY were his "base". All it did was confuse him (and me too). It did not offer Him any hope of a rebirth, a real cleansing of a sinful conscience, and real relationship with the living God. In fact, through the weeks Brandon told me about what he was learning, never once did Jesus come into the picture.......much less anything He said. Just a bunch of hype about how Brandon's life is gonna change as soon as he gets dunked under water. Jesus is the Way, the Truth, and the Life. What happened to that?So I guess I'm a little sensitive about it all. But don't get me wrong. Water baptism is a wonderful thing if done with a right heart to God. Like many other things God has created, it is a beautiful symbol of Him and His heart for mankind and ,if one desires to do it to demonstrate to others what God has done for him, then by all means don't hesitate.I myself have considered getting baptized again (I was when I was little and I swam off the stage) but my conscience tells me that I do not need to because my life is already baptized with Christ. If I thought he wanted me to, I wouldn't hesitate.So again, I just wanted to bring that up. I'm sure most everybody finds this obvious. But I always wonder why no one talks about the true meaning of water baptism.Okay, I'm done. Tell me whatchya think.Ern

I have just finished listening to a message on this site by Paris Reidhead called The True Vine. This message is custom made for this thread, a really good listen.. Greg :-D

Quote:“I believe personally myself, in england, canada and america it is an hour of desperation and urgency. We need to realize that this is not the time to play games with religion. It is time to go all out and hold nothing back. We need to be overcomers and strive against sin and seek after holiness of life. I would even say as Ravenhill said its not an crisis hour but an crisis minute, we are nearing the end its time now to repent.”A crisis minute - I like that one - I agree and think we are both on the same page. There is no time to waste. The Lord has been putting a great urgency on my heart also. I fear like brother Habakkuk3 were are on borrowed time at this very momentQuote:“Sadly some of the most corrupt parts of the church are those that proclaim the deeper christian life and baptism in the Holy Ghost.”Could you please expand slightly on what you mean by this. I think I know where you are going with this, I can see a couple applications, but if you could please clarify - that would be great.