Brownsville Revival - the Simple Truth?

Okay, I don't really know that much about the Brownville Revival, but here's what I've heard, and I wanted to know if I've heard correctly:-Steven Hill was greatly associated with it, but someone told me that he saw Mr. Hill being blown down by Benny Hinn on stage, which makes me question him.-Many reports of miracles and other signs, some which are commonly associated with historic revivals, but many are largely associated with Assemblies of God and other high-charismatic churches.-Brownsville desired for people to come and experience the revival and then return to their churches and carry the revival fire there. But many pastors resisted such infultration because it often was done without their involvement or blessing.-Brownsville is a spin-off of the Toronto occurance (the name of the church had Airport in it title), and many claim its more a manipulative method that produces reactions but not a real move of God that's a result of holy men and women waiting upon the Lord.-That Brownsville pastors have harshly rebuked and falsely prophesized against their critics (most of whom are only doing their job of examining them carefully against the Bible.)Any clarity would be appreaciated. :-)

Glad to help, First i suppose i show why i believe what i do:I had been to the Brownsvile revival 4 times and i've heard probably 50 sermons from the revival. I was radically saved and filled with the Holy Spirit and sent on fire for Jesus through the effects of the revival. I was infused with a passion for prayer holiness and evangelism through the revival. Sooo... all i have to say is this: Go to Steve Hills website and listen to his sermon under the banner "A warning to ministers worldwide".http://www.heartlandfamily.com/then listen to a few of his archive sermons from the revival here:http://www.brownsvillechurch.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=category&sectionid=1&id=20&Itemid=33Remember dear brother...it's easy to criticize it's harder to evangelize! Those who have no fruit simply declare the good fruit of those who do have fruit to be "false". I have also read many of the so called "discernment ministries" websites and they are notorious for twisting out of context and misinterpreting anything and everything people say... just like the Pharasiess who were trying to "protect" Israel from Jesus. or as the old saying goes: "Who's watching the watchmen?"CLear all the junk you have been told out of your mind and simply listen with an open heart and mind to what these men have to say. 1 John teaches that you have NO NEED for any man to teach you what is truth and what is a lie/ counterfit. The annointing of Jesus within you cannot be decieved, trust HIm!"If [your child] asks for bread will you give him a stone? If he asks for a fish will you give him a serpent?If you being evil know how to give good gifts to your children how much more will My Father give the Holy Spirt to those who ask Him" Do you trust the Father or not?Listen to them yourself! He will show you.and remember perfection and apostasy are entirely different matters!

Good points Tackle!I've heard of some of these.Another point is that we have been warned in scripture not to seek after signs and wonders.

Tacklebox,Steven Hill was greatly associated with it, but someone told me that he saw Mr. Hill being blown down by Benny Hinn on stage, which makes me question him. Both of these guys are asociated with the AoG. I don't know when this would have happened but if it happened before Benny gave up his AoG credentials Steven Hill might have caught flak for it if he didn't let Benny speak. The thing with Benny is that you can't speek to hard against him in any Pentecostal circles or you will get flak for it. Happens to me alot. Steven Hill has also wrote a book I have though -- Time for Tears -- in which he chronicles the need to weep for revival. I think in all this a timeline would be helpful -- which I don't really know. It seems ot me this is one that started well -- but didn't end well. The whole Brownsville thing strikes me as something that started out well -- people we getting converted off the streets, Christians getting serious and lots of prayer. Then something happened and here is what I think it was: Like all things now in Religion,Inc. these days -- someone found something from it to sell -- music in particualar. Money entered and real revival wained. It is a pity too because then you have to bring in personalities to sustain something that had no personality at the beginning but the person of the Holy Spirit. This is the challenge to any revival -- how long is it going to take before flesh stops or deminishes it? The thing is based on Ravenhill's description of revival Brownsville is only truly a local one, not any farther. Now a corrupted one at best. Too bad too. Blessings.

I have done some looking into this "revival", including watching a video by Joseph Chambers exposing some of the heretical practices (with plenty of video clips) going on at Brownsville and others.This is not meant to be divisive - just an arrival at TRUTH. The truth is this so-called "revival" is a perversion. There are NO Biblical references to the types of "manifestations" of the Spirit that I saw in the video. It sickened me. It's like there's this philosophy that the stranger it is, the more likely it's from God because man puts such limits on things. Now I agree that we limit God's influence in our own lives, but to throw out any kind of disciple or order (which is mentioned in the Bible) is heresy.People try to justify this "revival" the same way Mormons and JW's justify their views - and ends-justifies-the-means approach, claiming that thousands got "saved" and many more got filled with the Spirit or caught revival fire. If Noah's preaching were to be evaluated by such measures, then he'd be a failure, and so would Jeremiah. Results can be deceiving.I am no more willing to trust in statisical results as a measure of success than I am by emotions, for both can be deceiving.I have never been to Brownsville, nor do I ever want to go. I don't have to go to hell to know it's a bad place.One tell-tell sign that something's a fake is people can't defend it well enough so they turn the tables and make the one doing the criticism look bad. I merely stated some things I had heard about Brownsville (which all I have learned are true) and SJ, though well-intentioned, starts to bash those doing the criticism more than dealing with the TRUTH, claiming there ministries to be fruitless without real knowledge of such. And by the way, I do actively evangelize and desire everyday to worship God in Spirit......but also in TRUTH.Unless someone can refute the heresies that Brownsville practices, I will NOT even come close to considering this a revival. In fact, the minute we start calling this circus act a revival, we cheapen the name and devalue everything Ravenhill, Whitfield, Wesley, Tozer, Campbell, & Edwards did.I cannot believe how many people have been so desperate for revival that they are following in the path of Esau and selling the name of revival for what equals a pot of beans!!!

Umm yeah...you watched a video that was edited and put together by people who most likely 1.I'm sure SOLD it at a pretty good price2. Reject the baptism and gifts of the Spirit anyway and all supernatural manifestations thereof. (show me scripture for that!)and you believed them and decided it was "fake"...you show a remarkable ignorance of the supernatural manifestations that accompanied past revivals as well as Jesus own ministry.You forget that God still uses the "foolish" things to confound the "wise". Thats Scripture. It's Gods way.The prostitutes and sinners embraced it but you Mr. Pious know it all self appointed keeper of the kingdom reject it. When you're done using the Keyes of the Kingdom why dont you let Jesus borrow them for a while? When you're done with that why dont you put down your eraser and give God back the Book of Life to ask His opnion about all those people who just blotted out?I'm sure you are the "real elect" right?Or does your favorite discernment minister have a book about who is the real elect? I'm sure they are selling one! "Discernment ministries" are leeches. They do next to nothing but profit from bashing others. And you are an utter and total Hypocrite for Judging something that you didnt even take the time to check out first hand and still refuse to.Or does your pastor have to interpret and edit your Bible for you also? You know JW's and Mormans use Bibles too why dont we just throw those out?Find me a move of God that didnt anger leaders that were already established.You discredit the salvations and the healings if you want too the Pharasiees did the same to Jesus.By the way, Ravenhill endorsed Steve hill and Mike Brown and the revival started a few months after he died, what do you think of that? Is Ravenhill now a false prophet? You dont enter in yourself and not content with that you want to block the way for those who do! Phrasiee 101.You didnt save me friend, Jesus did. I know it might come a serious shock to you but He didnt ask your permission before He did it or your pastors permission either. Your willingness to go on second hand stories and edited videotapes shows you have NO LOVE FOR THE TRUTH. Your a gossip and a slander and Jesus would probably call you a viper. Your decived and you persectue Gods people thinking you are doing Him a service!Congratulations, You act just like your father the accusor of the breathern. I have news for you the Great White Throne of Judgment already had somebody sitting in it and His name is Jesus.I suggest you get your facts straight before you get there.

Though not an expert on it, I personally believe the Brownsville Revival to have been from God, but like any revival in history, ended up going a bit sour. I have personally seen much good fruit and have benefited from the fruit of that revival. But I have also seen some stuff that was not so good. If you want to hear some good fruit, simply listen to the testimonies on the "FREEEDOM CD"... every single one of them is from the Brownsville Revival. I've likewise, seen fruit from that CD as well. And likewise, you can find some trash out there as well. I'm sure there are many web sites that will be more than happy to supply you with such too. They did that in the first and second great awakenings as well.

If Brownsville is a typical revival, then I don't want revival. I don't think Ravenhill would either.

I have personally seen the fruit of the Toronto "blessing", i.e. churches being torn apart, widespread adultery, etc. etc. Ask yourself this, WHY would God want people to cluck like chickens, hiss like snakes, roar like lions and all the rest of it? Does it glorify Him? I strongly suggest that everyone that supports this kind of thing listen to David Wilkerson's sermon entitled "The Reproach Of The Solemn Assembly".

Toronto, Brownsville. What is the use of criticizing, and speaking against? Why not bring a revival ourselves by seeking God in prayer and fasting until He answers and pours down His blessing. The devil has got us christians so busy critizicing and fighting one another that that is all we do! Meanwhile our churches are void of God's glory and presence, full of human agendas and methods, and the lost are perishing, wondering and moking our weak and frail christianity. Jesus didn't criticize, He demonstrated the Father's will with grace, wisdom and power. It is so easy to speak for or against, it is simply so easy to talk. Any one can do it. But can we modern Christians demonstrate the Father's will like Jesus and the apostles did? Can we live in the demonstration of holiness, wisdom, power, zeal that is supposed to mark the lives of those filled with the Holy Spirit? If it doesn't, what are we filled with? What is lacking? We have plenty of words, and teachings and criticisms but no power at all. For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power, power to destroy the works of the devil in every single area of its influence, power to destroy the grip of sin over humanity, over God's children, and its consequences in their lives, not only for this life, but for eternity. Stop arguing, stop critizing and look deep into your lives. Meditate deeply, because he who claims to know Jesus must walk as He walked, in every area of life. It is not only possible, it is a direct commandment from the Lord! Be Holy as I am Holy. We must repent and come to Jesus for cleansing, for wisdom, for transformation, for power and direction to do His will. Arguing and criticizing will never do anything. Only Jesus in us, through the power of the Holy Spirit can bring truth to conquer the lies which entangle us and make us so weak and defeated. Much prayer and fasting, much seeking His face is the only answer.

I simply say this: Toronto I have heard more negative than good a times and even they have a few splinter groups that have broken away from what is gonig on their because of the abuses. They are trying to get back to the origianl purpsoe of the 'revival' Brownsville did indeed start with repentence and a desire for God -- but as with all spiritual things can be perverted. Is it a revial now? -- no. But it was one in the beginning. There are plenty of testamonies of genuine salvations from its early days to see that. Revivals are indeed more about moral climate and ethics than manifestations, but manifestations are a part of them. Ravenhill was very much for the spiritual gifts in balance with spiritual fruit. Wesley too saw strange things happen in his revials -- he neither endorsed nor condemned them. As an orthidox Pentecostal I have on the one hand to say that God does mighty things and supernatural ones in revival, on the other hand excesses can take away from the true meaning of revial as well. Revival is on the one hand very easy -- what we need ot do is ever before us. On the other hand it is very difficult to keep -- spiritual egotism will kill it in an instant. Blessings.

Indeed, some of these sites on the net are already anti-Pentecostal from the get go. They won't tell you straight up that they are judging certain revivals to be false simply because the revival was Pentecostal. If they were fair, they would probably have judged the first two Great Awakenings with the likes of Edwards, Whitefield, the Wesley's, Finney, etc., as false. After all, there were reports of people shaking, falling to the ground (and sometimes from trees!), showing great emotion, barking like dogs, etc. Not to say I endorse all such things, but, these and much other stranger manifestations were present in these great revivals of the past as well. Interesting humorous side note that a my Christian history professor, Dr Rosell mentioned once in class about one of these revivals: Once a man was seen on all fours at the foot of a tree barking like a dog. Another man approached him and said, "In God's name, what are you doing?" And the man replied, "I'm chasing the devil up a tree!" Then he went back to barking.(btw, I do not personally endorse animal sound manifestations, unless of course it is as some dramatic/prophetic act of some sort that is trying to convey an actual message behind it)

Neilgin1 wrote:yet another thread from a new member in "search of the truth".....yet preforementioned new member already has an opinion on what he's asking about, an opinion set firmly in the cement of his "conviction"..........I've seen this before on this website, and the common denominator is thus:1. they are ususally KJV only adherents,and...2. They are usually anti-pentecostal.I am NOT an apologist for Brownsville, but my feeling is that if folks who were formerly lost and were brought into a life saving encounter with the Lord Jesus Christ at Brownsville, then Praise God.........all else is white noise and the palaber of religionist's with too much time on their hands.Your assumptions are false. I am NOT KJV-only, and I am not anti-pentecostal. I have a Calvary Chapel background, but I am in the process of being a leader of a new church that is trans-denominational.I may be "new" to these boards, but I have pulled my time in the trenches and not just in front of a computer.The problem with Brownsville and Toronto is that people keep saying, "Well, IF people are getting saved, then I don't think we should say anything against it." Did you notice the "IF?" That's my whole problem with this - IF there are literally thousands and ten thousands being saved, then why is this country still unmoved and unchanged? If every revival is destinied to morph into a perversion, why seek it? God is looking for eternal dwelling because He is eternal. Yes, human kind has its sorry history of revival in one generation and quenching the next, but if technology can improve with every generation, why can't revival!? C'mon!

Fabian wrote:Toronto, Brownsville. What is the use of criticizing, and speaking against?The apostle John spent a great part of 1 John warning against false doctrine. Is he, under divine inspiration, in err?Why not bring a revival ourselves by seeking God in prayer and fasting until He answers and pours down His blessing.Now that's something we both agree on!The devil has got us christians so busy critizicing and fighting one another that that is all we do!Don't mistake selfish quarrelling with righteous discernment. I do agree that the latter can be given TOO much focus, though I am growing tired of people claiming there is too much of it when there really is quite a lack of it, in the true sense and application.Meanwhile our churches are void of God's glory and presence, full of human agendas and methods, and the lost are perishing, wondering and moking our weak and frail christianity.Well, if we don't speak out against such, won't it just continue? It's the same with the lost, you can let your little light shine, but Paul wants to know how they will hear without a preacher. Jesus didn't criticize, He demonstrated the Father's will with grace, wisdom and power.Jesus didn't what? I do believe that His harshest words were reserved for those who perverted religion, not the tax collectors and prostitutes. As Ravenhill said, "If Jesus were to return today, He wouldn't cleanse the Temple, He'd cleanse the pulpit!" Too many heresies are emanating from the pulpit, though I shouldn't be shocked because the Bible tells us it will only get worse. I don't think Christ wants us to just sit by and let prophesy be fulfilled, though. I think He wants to see His people fight heresies to the end.It is so easy to speak for or against, it is simply so easy to talk. Any one can do it. But can we modern Christians demonstrate the Father's will like Jesus and the apostles did? Can we live in the demonstration of holiness, wisdom, power, zeal that is supposed to mark the lives of those filled with the Holy Spirit? If it doesn't, what are we filled with? What is lacking? We have plenty of words, and teachings and criticisms but no power at all. For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power, power to destroy the works of the devil in every single area of its influence, power to destroy the grip of sin over humanity, over God's children, and its consequences in their lives, not only for this life, but for eternity.The Greek word for power when it applies to the Spirit in the NT simply means "ability to do." Brownsville and Toronto claim that the Spirit is manifesting itself in odd forms, but these "powers" given don't give an ability to do - they only create chaos and confusion. Healing was definitely a part of the apostles' ministry, but it is not to be exhalted and paraded like Benny Hinn and company do. These guys throw in a gospel message in an attempt to provide security from scrutiny, and they always defend themselves talking about how many "got saved", yet they seem to convert more checking accounts than they do souls in their wake! Stop arguing, stop critizing and look deep into your lives. Meditate deeply, because he who claims to know Jesus must walk as He walked, in every area of life.Again, the tables are always turned to cover-up the real issue. No one is willing to stand and give a truthful defense anymore. Everyone seems to know Matthew 7:1 but fails to read the next four verses or apply John 7:24 with it. Believe me, I am looking deeper within myself daily and desiring with tears and repentance to be more like Christ. But doing so only cause more holy anger against such heresies. They are turning houses of prayer into buildings of perversion. It is not only possible, it is a direct commandment from the Lord! Be Holy as I am Holy. We must repent and come to Jesus for cleansing, for wisdom, for transformation, for power and direction to do His will. Amen!Arguing and criticizing will never do anything.Again, there is a difference between vain arguements and righteous rebuke:"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels." -2 Tim. 2:23"Those who sin are to be rebuked publicly, so that the others may take warning." 1 Tim. 5:20"This testimony is true. Therefore, rebuke them sharply, so that they will be sound in the faith." -Titus 1:13Only Jesus in us, through the power of the Holy Spirit can bring truth to conquer the lies which entangle us and make us so weak and defeated. Much prayer and fasting, much seeking His face is the only answer.Jesse Morrel once said, "Evangelism without prayer is stupidity, but prayer without evangelism is hypocrisy." If you think of evangelism as one of the many facets of service to the Lord, then you can include all those in there along with evangelism. I firmly believe that the church should stand for righteousness and speak out boldly against heresy. We should "Make every effort to live in peace with all men", but that should not be more important than the latter part of that verse, "...and to be holy; without holiness no one will see the Lord." If we allow others to stand up in the name of our Lord and greatly pervert and devalue His work, we are allowing it to spread into the minds and hearts of our neighbors, and Christ commanded us to LOVE our neighbors like we love ourselves. If you love your neighbor, you'll warn him about more than hell.I am not trying to ridicule or embarass anyone - I really do want to stand for truth on this one.

I'm wondering, why in the world do Brownsville and Toronto automatically get grouped together? They are not one in the same. Each has it's own issues, and they need to be examined separately. Guilt is not through mere association.

There are connections, though Toronto seems to have gone further, probably because they started first.You know, I can understand how congregations can get out of hand after revival breaks out, but what I cannot excuse is why a pastor like John Kilpatrick (Brownsville) can start a "revival" but then turn to practicing and encouraging heresy.Here's Kilpatrick's own words concerning the revival:"Even though there is a revival going on here of great magnitude that is touching the world, it is being pastored and led by human beings that are flawed."This is from a letter of apology that Kilpatrick issued to Hank Hanegraaff after prophesying against him, that his ministry would topple in 90 days (which never happened.) Kilpatick tried to squirm out of saying it was a prophesy, and it's good that he did, for the Bible condemns him to death for giving a false one. This is the whole problem - God's name and His "power" are being thrown around and cheapened. His name isn't being magnified but simplified - into an experience and mass hysterics.Maybe I haven't read enough, but I cannot find anywhere in the great revivals of the past examples of the antics that have occurred at Toronto and Brownsville - not as a mass practice. I've heard strange accounts, many of which I question due to them having no Biblical basis, but the men of revival I respect the most - I have never read where they spoke of such things in a positive light, associating these practices with the genuine revival of the people.-Chris

Toronto, Brownsville. What is the use of criticizing, and speaking against? Why not bring a revival ourselves by seeking God in prayer and fasting until He answers and pours down His blessing. The devil has got us christians so busy critizicing and fighting one another that that is all we do! Meanwhile our churches are void of God's glory and presence, full of human agendas and methods, and the lost are perishing, wondering and moking our weak and frail christianity. Jesus didn't criticize, He demonstrated the Father's will with grace, wisdom and power. It is so easy to speak for or against, it is simply so easy to talk. Any one can do it. But can we modern Christians demonstrate the Father's will like Jesus and the apostles did? Can we live in the demonstration of holiness, wisdom, power, zeal that is supposed to mark the lives of those filled with the Holy Spirit? If it doesn't, what are we filled with? What is lacking? We have plenty of words, and teachings and criticisms but no power at all. For the kingdom of God does not consist in words but in power, power to destroy the works of the devil in every single area of its influence, power to destroy the grip of sin over humanity, over God's children, and its consequences in their lives, not only for this life, but for eternity. Stop arguing, stop critizing and look deep into your lives. Meditate deeply, because he who claims to know Jesus must walk as He walked, in every area of life. It is not only possible, it is a direct commandment from the Lord! Be Holy as I am Holy. We must repent and come to Jesus for cleansing, for wisdom, for transformation, for power and direction to do His will. Arguing and criticizing will never do anything. Only Jesus in us, through the power of the Holy Spirit can bring truth to conquer the lies which entangle us and make us so weak and defeated. Much prayer and fasting, much seeking His face is the only answer.Welcome to SI Fabian and thank you for your clear and insightful comments. I hope you will continue here among us.In Christ,Ron

Stop arguing, stop critizing and look deep into your livesWhat is the use of criticizing, and speaking against?Hi Fabian and welcome!Liked what you had to say primarily as it is true, to an extent... Hate to be the thorn here but, the clips quoted can't be just brushed aside that easily. There is every good reason to address that which needs to be addressed. Granted criticizing for the sheer sake of criticism is a great problem, but we are not to just stick our heads in the sand either, not when there are ramifications to deal with. The scriptures are also replete with this as you would likely know.Jesus didn't criticizeSure He did. What was he doing to the Scribes and Pharisees? Not to mention the mentions of lack of faith, slow to hear and much more towards His disciples. Sure it was in demonstration if you like and there is for sure no higher criticism in the land, nor will there ever be. But criticism nonetheless.It is always refreshing to hear from those that were there, as opposed to second hand accounts. That in and of itself is not to dismiss everything else but, as Ravenhill put it, "A man with an experience is not at the mercy to the man with an argument" (Paraphrased)Also, just another opportunity for everyone to try out the search engine here. There has been a few previous discussions here on this particular topic.