Justification and Sanctification

sermonindex Nov 25, 2003

This thread is a digression topic of:What happens at death?Once the salvation is 'in' I can 'work it out'; that is Sanctification.Hi Ron, its funny cause I remember Benny Hinn quoting this quite forcefully when I used to watch him the first few years of my christian life. for more discussions on Benny Hinn visit:Benny Hinn? unity in the bodyI don't totally agree with your statement. Our Justification and Santification are from God, 'work it out' kinda seems like we sanctify ourselves by mortification, which we are called to do in some part, but Christ is our Santification and overall if we have Christ dwelling in our hearts by faith then we are truly sanctified.some definition of terms:justification - just as we had never sinned. santification - becoming more and more like Jesus.

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philologos Nov 25, 2003

your quote: "some definition of terms:justification - just as we had never sinned. santification - becoming more and more like Jesus."Hi Gregmmm, now as this is in the 'scriptural debate' forum and not the 'lounge', let me take you up on both.Justification cannot be defined as above. What you have described is the 'consequence' of justification not its definition. Similary, what you have in as a described for Sanctification is similarly not a definition but a consequence.While we're on the theme, we don't sanctify ourselves at all. Sanctification means to separate out from the main block, and as such, is God's sovereign prerogative. Although 'having become His', you will find a few references where God commanded the Israelites to 'sanctify themselves'.The balance is found in Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live. I must put to death the deeds of the body, but I can only do that through the Spirit. I think it is thrilling to see how God insists on our cooperation in the outworking of our salvation. I must drive in the nails by the power of His indwelling Spirit, and certainly not by my strength of will or by asceticism.BTW Don't get be started on Benny Hinn! I am probably the only one on this forum who has been in his meetings and met him personally, and my reactions are far stronger than anyone has yet posted. His wife's grandfather was a great blessing to me as a young Christian, and I think he would have been broken-hearted to see how things have developed.

sermonindex Nov 25, 2003

Justification cannot be defined as above. What you have described is the 'consequence' of justification not its definition. Similary, what you have in as a described for Sanctification is similarly not a definition but a consequence.Thanks for clarifying Ron! you are right, what do you think about this below quote:"The second definite work of Grace, Sanctification. A vessel must first be took up, picked up. It's all full of mud. It's Justified. Because it has been picked up out of the mud. Next, it's got to be cleansed and scoured out. The word "sanctify" means "cleansed", and "set aside for service". But set aside for service, don't mean you're in service. The Holy Ghost came on the sanctified believers. And signs and wonders began to manifest themself..."I got this description from a chatroom. I was a young 2 yr old Christian and was asking God what is sanctification and when I logged into the chatroom right away the first text I saw was: here is a good description of sanctification.. and there it was.. and I was like 'thanks God.' Obviously I wrote it down, but looking at it now it doesn't seem to full of a description, but it does seem to have some basic principles of what sanctification is.BTW Don't get be started on Benny Hinn! I am probably the only one on this forum who has been in his meetings and met him personally, and my reactions are far stronger than anyone has yet posted. His wife's grandfather was a great blessing to me as a young Christian, and I think he would have been broken-hearted to see how things have developed.hmmm I would like to know more. In the Benny Hinn forum there were alot of quotes by him.. but as you surely know that I could take quotes even from you Ron over the years and make you to seem false also. I think we have to look more broadly at a teacher or prophet before calling them false. Like you I have benefited much as a young Christian from some teaching of Benny Hinn, I believe the Holy Spirit allowed me to hold on to what was good and discard the false. But I do have alot of hangups with him and lots of questionables forsure. I would like to hear what you think about this but I am not twisting your arm to do it.. hehe I just respect your opinions very much. Thanks again for the clarification Ron! :-D

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philologos Nov 26, 2003

Hi GregJust to clarify the clarification...your quote: "Like you I have benefited much as a young Christian from some teaching of Benny Hinn, I believe the Holy Spirit allowed me to hold on to what was good and discard the false." My comment was that Benny Hinn's wife's grandfather had been a blessing to me in earlier years, and BTW thanks for not twisting my arm! :-D I am very reluctant to judge a man today by what I knew almost 30 years ago. As a British prime minister once remarked "a week is a long time in politics". 30 years is a long way back in a man's pilgrimage. Of course I have seen him on Cable a couple of times since, but not too much. Consequently any up to date comments would be based on the comments of others (which I suspect is often, in turn, based on the comments of others). I wouldn't like to be judged that way so I won't judge BH that way. For what it is worth my reaction of 30 years ago was that there were genuine demonstrations of supernatural power, but I was personally convinced that the source was not the Holy Spirit. To say more would be to get into the whole area of demonic and psychic which I don't think is a healthy topic for our forums. (see an earlier comment here)

sermonindex Nov 27, 2003

Just to clarify the clarification...thanks Ron thats pretty clear now. For what it is worth my reaction of 30 years ago was that there were genuine demonstrations of supernatural power, but I was personally convinced that the source was not the Holy Spirit.intresting. :-o

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crsschk Nov 27, 2003

Thanks Ron,For your comments re: BH...I have been both to one of his "personal" meetings or "for members" 3 day conference's, whatever you want to call it and to his crusades, not to mention that he 'preached' in the church I attended back then on a number of occasions amongst some other notables.This all get's kinda old after awhile and I agree with Greg in some respects about the focus that we give to these things (mentioned in another thread) But I will concur with you about the source, I wasn't very discerning in those days and was pretty well caught up in it all, but something just wasn't 'right', it took some other voices (Hannegraaff primarily) to help me see the light, a very confusing time for a realtively new believer.