Did Ravenhill ever hear about the Toronto / Brownsville "revivals"?

I know Ravenhill died in 1994, which would put him alive while the "toronto blessing" was in effect and the "brownsville revival" was beginning.Does anyone know if Ravenhill had any thoughts on these?-Chris

For those very familiar with Ravnehill - What do you think he would say about these "revivals"?

I think he would have been outraged! I weep when I think about this whole issue about what Ravenhill thought about 1994. He was expecting revival till his very last breath and when he expired some phony junk came forth. I know his prayers were not in vain but when are the moisture of his prayers for this nation going to be answered by God and poured back out on this sinful generation. Some say that what happened in Toronto were the answer to the prayers but I disagree. But who am I to say anything. I just know that even if that Toronto was a good thing, it was not a God thing. It wasn't some outpourings of temporal effects that could have changed Canada or America or any other nation, it must be the Eternal God changing a people so bound by time that they are changed forever! That is not what happened in Toronto. That is the type of Revival Leonard Ravenhill was waiting for, the same type we all pray would happen as well.

My sentiments exactly.I also think it's a tragedy that Ravenhill's death and the Toronto "blessing" happened during the same year.I watched a video last night by Jospeh Chambers, who calls himself a "classical Pentecostal", that exposed many of the false truths associated with toronto and brownsville, and I am still disturbed greatly by the video clips I saw. My sleep was even troubled by it.If this is "revival", I want nothing to do with it. I will continue to seek God and pray that He will honor our prayers with a true visitation, not some circus show.God help us! We are so ignorant of the Living God! I want to wash in His Word after seeing that filth! How wonderful is His Word, and how blessed we would be if we could see and feel Him invading us with His presence and know that it is real because it is upheld by His Word!How does one type a groaning sigh? :cry:

Well you laude Ravenhill to the skies but the two people he spent the most time with in the last years of his life pouring into are none other than Dr. Michal Brown and Steve Hill...two of the leaders of the Brownsville revival. And oh yeah, he did this after Steve Hill had spend years and years in the Argentine revival with Carlos Andacondia. Obviuosly he didnt have a problem with manifestations!!So you once again prove you dont know a hill a beans. I ask you again. Ravenhill endorsed these men wholeheartedly is he now a false prophet?Was he also decieved?

Well my friend, I thank you for your opinian about Ravenhill's later part of his life.But to just give you something to think about: 1. Ravenhill went anywhere God told him to go. He even went to preach and Jimmy Swaggert's school as well as Oral Robert's but towards the end called them reprobates, which they in truth were.2. Ravenhill also hung out with many of the Kansas City prophets(Bob Jones, Paul Cain) and so did Art Katz. Art Katz even went as far as saying that 'Bob Jones was a true prophet.' But time made it plain that both these men were phony and Art Katz began to expose these men in his later writings 'Anatomy of False prophets' chapter in the book 'Spirit of prophecy.' 3. The manifestations in Argentina and that were a part Brownsville were not like Toronto. There were a couple things like Toronto, but Toronto was an explosion of lies that never even went as far as in Brownsville, although that was even questionable. To the point where even Derek Prince would have called it demonic..Derek Prince on Deception4. Steve Hill and Michael Brown are not spiritual barometers of who Ravenhill was or what he stood for. Jimmy Swaggert often met with Ravenhill, Benny Hinn often meets with Hank Hanegraff so what. True prophets will always attempt to try to persuade false ones, so that they might come to repentance.So I hope that somewhat helps. So people say that Ravenhill was so desperate for revival that towards the end started hanging out with the worng people, but he never changed his conviction that revival was mostly repentance from sin toward God, rather then signs and manifestations,

4. Steve Hill and Michael Brown are not spiritual barometers of who Ravenhill was or what he stood for. Jimmy Swaggert often met with Ravenhill, Benny Hinn often meets with Hank Hanegraff so what. True prophets will always attempt to try to persuade false ones, so that they might come to repentance.Ignorance of the facts speaks again.1. He was NOT rebuking them he was mentoring them.2. David Ravenhill, (Lenoards son) approved of the Brownsville Revival. You would think he would know. If you have questions about his character read this:"Modern Day MONEY CHANGERS" -by David Ravenhill.I’m convinced that the carnal, cunning, conniving, crooked crooks that Jesus drove out of the Temple are still among us today. These modern day moneychangers are forever devising new and deceptive doctrines to defraud God’s people out of His/their money. These masters of deceit have now set up their changing tables throughout the Christian television industry.I’m absolutely certain that if Jesus returned today He would walk into the vast majority of these television studios and overthrow the cameras, lights, monitors, and soundboards. He would unplug the microphones and scatter the makeup colors around as He went about destroying the stages and backdrops.Several years ago now, a nationally know prophetic voice was told by the Lord, “I’m sick and tired of the prosperity message”. If that was true then, how much more today. As far back as 1986, the top seven media evangelists took in over 750 million dollars. Now with the increased manipulation of ‘seed faith teaching’ that amount has no doubt been dwarfed by comparison.Only a few days ago I was appalled as I watched and listened as Pastor Steve__________ zealously twisted and distorted the Scriptures to his own advantage. This ‘brother’ dared to distort the most sacred truth of all Scripture. He used The Day Of Atonement, that day when Jesus Christ the Lamb of God shed His blood for the sins of the world, to teach that how we give financially determines how God will respond to us throughout the coming year. My blood boiled as I listened. This ‘brother’ had finally crossed the line and was now on the verge of blaspheming the atoning work of our blessed Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, not to mention lining his own pockets with the proceeds. He might as well have been selling indulgences by inferring that God’s favor toward us was based on our giving rather than God’s unmerited grace and forgiveness through the gift of His Son. What made matters worse was that this same ‘charlatan’ was the guest of one of the nation’s best known charismatic personalities. Within a day or so he was teaching the same message on a local Christian telethon. Neither the evangelist nor the network sought to correct his aberrant teaching – after all, the show must go on and that takes money, so how you raise it doesn’t seem to matter anymore.Why does almost every single Christian program have to end with some type of ‘seed faith teaching’? If these men and women of faith really believed what they taught, they would practice what they preach and teach; after all what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. Imagine how shocked you would be if your favorite televangelist and covenant partner were to send you a check in their next mailing for the amount of $1,000.00 with a personal note telling you he/she just wanted to sow into your life. Perhaps then I could believe that these men/women really believe and practice what they teach. Not only that, but they would never have to appeal for money again as God’s return to them would result in a hundredfold increase. At least that’s what they would have us to believe.On a recent ministry trip to the Northwest, I was told by a pastor friend that his church had received a call from a well known and anointed teacher in the Body of Christ. The caller was asking them for a contribution towards the purchase of a jet for their ministry. What a far cry from what the Apostle Paul taught when he prefaced his teaching on ‘sowing and reaping’ with these words; “ For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality.” (II Cor. 8:13-14)Many pastors measure their success in terms of numbers –the larger the church the more successful their ministry. Itinerant ministries, not being able to brag about size, seem to fall for the notion that having one’s own jet is how success is determined. (Once it was the Rolex watch). By the way, if you love and appreciate this fine teacher, pray that he won’t get the desires of his heart - it will only lead to the leanness of his soul.This is one man’s attempt to appeal to the Body of Christ. Stop pandering to these moneychangers. These men and women live like kings while spending your money to buy mansions and jets for themselves. They dine in the finest restaurants, wear the latest designer fashions and then have the audacity to tell you that you can live the same way as long as you give to their ministry.I opened my Bible the other day to Zechariah’s wonderful prophecy concerning the first coming of Jesus, our great and glorious King. Listen to his words; ‘Behold your King is coming to you; He is just and endowed with salvation, humble, and mounted on a donkey, even on a colt the foal of a donkey.’( Zechariah 9:9 ) What a far cry from the televangelist who comes high and mighty and traveling on his own jet!If you are as sick and tired as I am about this waste of God’s money, then for heaven’s sake STOP SUPPORTING THESE PEOPLE. Give your money to your local church. There are tens of thousands of needy missionaries who barely have enough support to keep themselves alive. They are laboring long and hard under some of the most difficult and trying conditions. They would rejoice at the thought of an extra $10-30 dollars a month support. These are the real heroes of whom the world is not worthy. Help put these MONEY LOVING TELEVANGELISTS OUT OF BUSINESS and save another MISSIONARY FROM EXTINCTION. Together we can make it happen. Please forward this to as many people as you know.Thanks.-David Ravenhill.David Ravenhill is good friends with Steve Hill and Michal Brown...you would think Ravenhills SON would know what his dad would approve of. He seemed to think the revival was genuine!I dont know anything about Toronto. So I'm not even going to go there. But if the reports are as twisted as the ones i've heard about Brownsville (of which i was a part) then i have no reason at ALL to listen to the accusations. Lies lies and more lies.

Manifestations of ALL kinds were a part of the Agentine revival. Including miracles of healing dreams visions and prophecy. Cessasionists are FALSE PROPHETS. I hope Benny Hinn does persuade Hannegraff to repent.

Did L.Ravenhill Know about the revival?Answer: I talked with a brother who witnessed Ravenhill hear a testimony about one of these "revivals". "When Ravenhill heard about it his face became pale white (sick)." -This was in a prayer meeting. Some said this is what ended his life after hearing about such a thing.

Hey bro I am not a cessationist!I am all for dreams, visions, and etc.But there are manifestations that Brownsville and Toronto supported that were not biblcal.And second I am not the enemy here...I just wanted to give you some things to think about.Now I agree with you on the issue that he was mentoring them but once again, Jesus discipled Judas. And Judas heard all Jesus' sermons. I'm not saying those men are Judas.' but to think they were right on just because they were discipled by someone holy implies nothing.Also about David Ravenhill. I know those things. David decided to stay here in UsA for that reason. But there is a split here as well, because the other son, Paul Ravenhill, left The USA with Martha Ravenhill because they believe that Leonard Ravenhill was the last prophet here to the USA, and that America has no hope. Paul doesn't seem to endorse the things done over in Toronto.So, once again just giving you some things to think about.

I've talked with Paul R. and I confirm what you said. He's done with America.

brentw,The revivals started after Ravenhills death if i have my time line correct..so i find this a little difficult to believe.Also i know virtually nothing (first hand) about tornonto. And i DONT listen to slander so i reserve judgment on that one. Repentance was preached at Brownsville, sinners were saved. End of story. Also, What manifestations violated what specific Scripture?

SJ,What I was told about Ravenhill hearing about the "revival" was told to me from a revalist a very dear saint.(older man). He was in the meeting first hand. Believe what you may but this is what a man of God told me.(He was their)He also heard Paul R. preach in person. In Him, Brent

A fruit of the meeting in Toronto was the transformation that took place of two burnt out missionaries Heidi and Rolland Baker. They went from 18 years as missionaries in Africa only establishing 3 churches, to over 10,000 churches in the following 6 years after the Toronto outpouring. I've met multiple eye witnesses to the miracles that have happened in her ministry in Africa, and they're not the type of person to exagerate anything. It's not just the miracles either, the geniuness of love that the Bakers and others on their staff have for people and their sacrifice is tremendous. If interested check out a video recently made about their ministry: Compelled By Love.

Bill Johnson who was a pastor out of nowheresville CA recommitted to the Lord in Toronto that he would give the rest of His life to pursue a genuine move of God "and never change the subject." A few years later, he was asked to come to Bethel Church in Redding, CA with this vision, and Bethel has become an epocenter of God's movement in healing and restoring lives. The internationally known worship group Jesus Culture came out of Bethel church. Birthed out of Bill and his staff's desire to make worshipping God on Sunday, the most important thing.

A close relative of mine had an encounter with God like this when she was touring Israel with a Presbyterian church group. In the middle of a night where they were gathered in a room praying, she was filled with joy and bursting out laughing uncontrollably for a considerable amount of time, to the point where she was became embarrassed. She couldn't explain what happened for years, until she heard about some of the things that happened in Toronto.

As far as it being in the Bible or not, when we say that something isn't in scripture, it's important to remember that there were many things that happened for the first time in the scripture itself. These things did not defy the teachings of previous scripture, but instead they were occurences of God moving that further displayed what God wanted to do, unlike teaching which brings definition to truth. Think of how crazy Mary must have been considered for telling people she had a virgin birth... virgin birth had never previously happened anywhere in the Torah. Jesus spitting on dirt and rubbing it a blind man's eyes. Peter's shadow healing people. Paul's tunic. The Holy Spirit being released over gentiles. If you bring in Old Testament, looking at some of the prophet's visions and miracles I could write a book on how crazy or messeed up they sounded. Crazy: Isaiah running around naked as a prophetic sign (Is 20). Messed up: Elisha cursing some kids for calling him bald and them being mauled by bears (2 Kings 2).

Len died before the revival but he would certainly have been positive of the Brownsville Revival since his friends Steve Hill and Dr Michael Brown and later on even his son David Ravenhill were doing the Lord's work there.

Len, always said that he rather had fire (real revival) with some smoke (i.e. false and carnal people acting wierd) than no fire at all. He also reminded his hearers to be careful not to judge something of not being of God just because it looked a bit different; the lasting fruit is what counts.

Sincerely Magnus, Sweden

Anyone who calls Michael Brown a false prophet is a fool. If you took the time to listen to even a smattering of his many many sermons available online you would realize this.

Dr. Browns fellowhip, FIRE Church in Concord NC is pastored by a man(Scott Volk) who at least partially grew up under the teaching of Art Katz at Ben Israel. Art Katz was a mentor and friend of Dr. Brown, and this ministry.

I think there is a major distinction, from what I have seen and heard between Toronto and Brownsville. I have listened to many many sermons preached during Brownsville (many of which used to be available on fireonthealtar.com but may still be available elsewhere.

I am not saying Brownsville was perfect (what revival is?) and there is going to be some outlier behavior as in every revival. But to say there wasn't true repentance or true salvations that resulted is a tad silly. The same could be said of the Welsh revival, the Hebrides Revival or (gasp) the day of Pentecost revival.