Have a little wine...

Don't give in to drunkenness, but a little wine is permissable?Throughout the NT is mention of drinking wine. Paul instructs to have a little wine, and not just water to help with an upset stomach. But at the same time, anything that causes a brother to stumble should be avoided.Where do you draw the line between "have a little wine" and "cause not a brother to stumble" in regards to alcohol? Basically, because of stigma of alcohol, or whatever else, would it be better in this day to avoid alcohol alltogether to defend Christ's image?Grace and Peace...

Personally I don't drink alcohol at uni. From speaking to housemates, they sound like they are very much fed up with the uselessness of the world; but they don't see an alternative and so continue there own search for pleasure. I see alcohol, even in limited forms, as a form of escapism, all to often there lives are geared up around the persuit of pleasure, rather than having it as a by product of work. As such the week revolves around going out and "loosing themselves" - If I have the answer, is it good to look like i'm trying to escape from something (even in moderation)? :PI've read quite a bit from both a scientific point of view (alcohol is far far stronger now than it was 2000 years ago), and also that the word "wine" in greek meant both grape juice or fermented "wine" - but its not a subject I have looked into vastly - I don't think there is an issue with drinking in moderation but i don't feel comfortable with it :$

Well, to first answer another comment, we know that "wine" doesn't just refer to juice alone. We're warned not to get drunk off of it, and it's pretty hard to get drunk off of grape juice :-) As far as what I believe? I believe it depends on the context of where you're at when you're drinking the wine. Here's what I mean: If I'm at home with my wife, I see no problem in having a glass with her. On the other hand, if we're at a Bible study with a recovering alcoholic present, it probably wouldn't be the best time to bust out the bubbly!On that note, however, I've heard that even having that glass with my wife would qualify me as a drinker, which could push that alcohol stigma to push a person away from the church, away from Christ.I don't know if this is a qualified concern, however. Christ and his disciples passed around the wine that signified his blood. It was culturally acceptable then, and it is now, outside of the church crowd. I wonder if the only people who are turned off by the idea are the believers who think themselves above alcohol.So it comes to this: I wouldn't drink it in the presence of a mormon- it would be offensive. A recovering alcoholic might be tempted back into sin. But a glass with my wife (and always in moderation) shouldn't be a problem.Grace and Peace...

I really want to get more of a thought from you guys, though.Grace and peace...

Please do not take the following response the wrong way, it isn't meant sarcastically....Have you prayed about it, and asked God for His council on the subject.Yes we have some very dedicated and intelligent members here, with a vast array of opinion, but Gods opinion is the only one that really counts....God bless....

I know what you mean.Actually, this isn't an issue right now- I'm under age, and can't buy alcohol at the moment. But I know godly families that believe both ways, and I want to know more of why. There's a lot of wisdom with issues like this, and the direction of those elder to us younger guys can be great.Yeah, something to pray about. But also doctrinally, what's the best thing?Grace and Peace...

How come you drink wine while you can't buy it and are under age? Or am I missing something here? :-? For what I know, alcohol is not bad. As you said, even Jesus drank it. He would also never drink too much.Keep it moderate I would say, the Bible warns against drinking too much but not against drinking any.How would a little wine cause someone to stumble?If indeed that brother is a recovering alcoholic you should not do anything yourself what can cause him to fall. If you are with people who very much dislike and disapprove drinking alcohol then don't drink it. But in general its rather the misuse of drinking alcohol instead drinking something at all that makes people question your honesty in faith. (or a possible stumble block)What is acceptable to one (within God given limits) might be very well unacceptable and a stumble block for another.But there is always something that is offensive for someone. Perhaps some people find pink shirts very offensive. :-)Where do you draw the line between "have a little wine" and "cause not a brother to stumble" in regards to alcohol? Basically, because of stigma of alcohol, or whatever else, would it be better in this day to avoid alcohol alltogether to defend Christ's image?[edit]Added another thought.

Alright. Sounds like i'm not too off base.And I don't drink at all now because I'm underage. Not just that I don't buy it, but I don't drink at all. I do turn of age in a couple of months, however, which has sparked my questions. :-) Grace and Peace...

I think if you want wine, make it yourself. Read the history behind Dr. Welch and communion wine. And it's okay in moderation, but our witness is more important.-Chris

I don't know if my wife would trust anything that I made- she won't even let me work on the car... ;-) Grace and Peace...

Certainly the bible doesn't forbid it, and it is definately not something to be used to chastise someone - however it is one temptation I could do without :PI think Leonard Ravenhill said something along the lines of (correct me if I butchered it:X); "I hope you don't spend God's money like that"Personally when alcohol abuse is such a big problem; well where I live anyway, I fear it would only be drinking to "fit in with the crowd", even in moderation - I've come to experiance you get people inquireing more about your beliefs if your willing to stick your neck out and make a stand for something (even though its allowed biblically, I don't feel mature enough to handle it :$), although it does mean they look to trip you up at every possible occasion! Admitedly, I've never thought about it within the context of the home:$

Where do you draw the line between "have a little wine" and "cause not a brother to stumble" in regards to alcohol? Basically, because of stigma of alcohol, or whatever else, would it be better in this day to avoid alcohol alltogether to defend Christ's image?I know that its not popular but I think it should be avoided all together...... maybe I'm just religious but why bother with it at all? i think that our testimony as believers is undermined by alcohol whether moderately, home made or whatever..... I think we see enough of the "evils" of alcohol just to leave it alone.Are the world not looking for us to be different - why do what they do? I'm sorry but I just can't understand believers wanting to drink. I put into the all things are lawfull but not all things are profitable category.My opinion for what its worth - Be filled with the Spirit - He's all you need.

I think a word study in the Greek for the word OINOSmight be in order here, and also it would be helpful to look at the wedding of Canaan and the new wine vs the old wine (why the VERY DISTINCT difference). More important would be a look at the properties of wine (a decaying fruit)and then look at the use in the Lords Supper. The symbolism doesn't equate. The Lords blood was pure. Wine...not so pure. Another note of historical importance is if you look at the way drink was contained and maintained in those days you'll note a vast difference. No Homoginization, refrigeration, pasturization. The grape juice naturally furmented from heat and age. It wasn't always drank for intoxication, that was just a natural effect. Yes you can get drunk on grape juice if improper care isn't taken. (from someone who use to do homebrew (like applejack).Apology in advance: There are alot of christians today who try to make scripture line up with their lifestyle (and sometimes sin) instead of making their lifestyles line up to the word.

Vance Havner: "We discuss what to do about alcolholism but nobody seems to want to do much about alcohol. And that is simply a matter of trying to mop up the floor while you leave the faucet running. I'm tired of hearing about temperance instead of abstinence, in order to please the cocktail crowd in church congregations"

I'm tired of hearing about temperance instead of abstinence, in order to please the cocktail crowd in church congregations" Sounds like something I would say, In fact I wish I had said it....direct and to the point.

Groh Frog,If you never drink, the devil cannot tempt you to get drunk! Ever think about that? That could be one less temptation you will have to deal with. All alcoholics started with one drink with no intention of ever becoming one. Since you are questioning about whether to drink alcohol or not, I suspect the Holy Spirit is telling you 'no' but you really would like for Christians to tell you it is OK in moderation, right? If you go against the leading of the HS in this matter, how can you expect Him to protect you from its ravages? Why do you want to drink? To fit in with the crowd? What crowd are you running with? Seems to me that if this is the case, you need to find new friends! Drinking people do not make the nicest companions....they will get involved in other devilments and lure you in....So my conclusion is "NO". You wanted advice from older persons...well I am 58 YO, will be 59 in a few months, does that qualify me as being old? ;-) ginnyrose

Thats very true, but the devil can tempt you to drink something and make you feel very bad about it while its not neccesary. Thats why its important to know that drinking anything is not sin. Or am I thinking that weird now?ginnyrose wrote:If you never drink, the devil cannot tempt you to get drunk! Ever think about that? That could be one less temptation you will have to deal with. All alcoholics started with one drink with no intention of ever becoming one.I find drinking only a little having just as many impact as drinking nothing. Just beeing at a birthday party and saying that you had enough also draws the attention to God in a good way.But I can certainly see the reasons one would not want to drink alcohol at all.The problem is that we can put rules on ourselves (not saying that you people do) which are not directly from the Bible but more based on personal opinion. If one would find drinking in moderation standing in the way between you and God then don't drink.Occasionaly I do go to a 'christian bar' with some people from the youth church group I am in. Sometimes I do drink a little other times I don't drink. Hopefully I'm not seen as a heretic by some now. :-P

Hello,Occasionaly I do go to a 'christian bar' I am unfamiliar with this term, could you please elaborate?