Humanitarianism vs. the Gospel

Hi,I feel a real need to begin a topic that deals with humanitarianism. I am very much in the dark (not a good place for a believer to be). Can any of you who have been dealing with this issue shed a little light on it? Are there any more sermons available here besides "Ten Shekels", or especially are there any books that deal with the subject in depth? Thanks so much for your responses.I was watching "Revival Hymn" last night and was challenged about the intrusion of Humanitarianism into Christianity. I feel that this has permeated our faith to such an extent that we are not even really aware of its existence or of the harm done by this 'other gospel' unless the Holy Spirit makes us aware of it.For instance, right now I've downloaded and am printing up a book in 3 languages. This book, "True Happiness", by DenSu Ministries http://www.densu.com/ is printed in many languages, and I am dealing with two newcomers to Jesus - a ex-Sikh man and his ex-Buddhist Thai wife. He speaks a little English, so we can 'sort of' communicate, but he must translate for her, as my Thai is poor.I'm really starving for materials in their own languages that provide some foundation to help me teach them, I've gotten them a Thai Bible, which may be pretty compromised, (I'm still researching this issue). However, the "God loves you and has a wonderful plan for your life" approach doesn't quite capture the essence of a gospel which also calls us to surrender completely to His will, pick up our crosses, and suffer with Him - That He may be glorified in our lives.The more I submit the better the second part of that sounds, and the first part sounds, well... watered down somehow.What do I do? Do I print up these books in English (for me), Punjabi (for him), and Thai (for her), and go through and correct all the mistakes as we study? On the other hand, will I even see the mistakes? This is exactly the Gospel I've preached for years, and the one I accepted years ago. It's still foundational stuff, but it's the bias toward the believer and away from the Lord that bothers me. If anyone cares to read the intro to the book (5-10 minutes) and comment, I'd be grateful. http://www.densu.com/c1.htmlWe are doing a Bible study as well, in the book of Luke, at this time. But I like the way that things are brought into focus by some of the great writings of the faith. I am considering translating something like "The Normal Christian Life", or "The Knowledge of the Holy" into Thai, but this would be finished some months from now. I felt led to add Sony and Wan Pen Singh’s Testimony here:Sony Singh, a Sikh, came into a church I was visiting a few months ago. He had been cheated by his Buddhist business partners out of most of his money and business on Ko Samui island in Thailand. To add murderous injury to malicious insult they hired thugs and he was stabbed on three occasions, he survived all three times. He traveled back to Punjab, India to sell his only remaining resource - some property - only to find that his 2 Sikh brothers had forged some papers and stolen his land. He was no longer welcome there. At this time Wan Pen - his Thai Buddhist wife became pregnant - though the doctors said it was impossible. Destitute and now pregnant as well! What horrible timing! Sony arrived back here, and, at wit’s end, came into the church’s coffee house. He said he didn’t know what to do other than donate one of his kidneys for some money. Likewise, Wan Pen had her evil mother and sister’s talking that she should get an abortion, and at 5 months into her pregnancy! This made her feel like committing suicide. The Lord moved me to intervene. Sony turned to the Savior first. Today he’s willing to die for Jesus! I told him that his wife would be sanctified through him. He took that one step of faith further. He told her she must believe in Jesus because he wasn’t going to have a child raised apart from Christ. She listened. Now she, too loves Jesus. I believe this was God’s way of bringing these two to him - through the baby! Hallelujah! Wan Pen and Sony were baptized two days ago (after delaying for months, it seemed). Less than 12 hours ago beautiful Serafina Singh was delivered into the world. Praise Him!

I was watching "Revival Hymn" last night and was challenged about the intrusion of Humanitarianism into Christianity. I feel that this has permeated our faith to such an extent that we are not even really aware of its existence or of the harm done by this 'other gospel' unless the Holy Spirit makes us aware of it. Well said. Brother Reidhead's message was in 1961 I believe and this message has permeated the church that we don't even see this anymore.I brought the topic of psychoheresy some weeks back and have a couple of interesting books on the mixing of God's word with psychology. There's an excellent website with some articles available here: Psychoheresy.My pastor gave a powerful message last night that I'll have Sunday on Theism vs. Materialism, which is ongoing battle in America and Europe and parts of Asia as well. If you would like a copy of the sermon, drop me a PM with your address and I'll mail it to you.I have a friend who was a missionary in Thailand for a number of years but I haven't seen him in a few weeks. If you're interested, I can give him a call.Do we obey God because we want something from Him or do we obey Him simply because we love Him? Is He the reward we're after or are we looking for something else? Good questions to ask. Will pray about commenting on your book as well...

Hi You were talking to my position with a few of your replies. You can't know what's going on in my heart. Sounds like the Holy Spirit to me!I just went to a Christian Psycholology Retreat in Chiang Mai for 2 weeks. I went in with an open mind and heart, but the Lord was dealing with me throughout. I had one good councelor, and learned much from my small groups session, but mostly it was, at best, an attempt to keep you from feeling too convicted by sins. At worst it was a prozac commercial. I can't comment as I feel too strongly about its negative spiritual effects.Another War I'm having internally is with Materialism. I didn't mention it in my rather long post, but, in order to get Serafina Singh born, I had to sell my most prized possession, a Gibson guitar I've owned for 35 years, A trade well made I'd call it! I feel the Lord is calling me. maybe all in the Church of Leodicea to turn their backs on things. I'd love to receive your pastor's message concerning Materialism and Theism.Feel free to pass on my e-mail and mobile # to your friend in ThailandThanks,Jeffrey

Might do you good to listion to the "Judgement seat of Christ" by raveinhill. Dosen't talk about it really, but it does convict of materialism.I am(growing up in a very materalistic enviorment) struggling with this sin also. BUT God is faithful, and I can tell you just from the glance at that book your thinking of giving those new converts. DO NOT DO IT BROTHER! Christ is not happiness, preach the law, repentance, then grace :) Happiness is a by product, not main product by Christ. We don't "keep everything we have and feel something is missing". We "Forsake everything we have, and miss nothing because we have Christ". I wish i knew of more sermons and subjects concerning this, but my advice. Stay away from Main stream Christianity and stick to the bible. There are lots of good online translations of the King James Bible in i believe other languages. If you can't find faithful stuff to help your brother and sisters out, go through the bible with them. Thats all we really need anyway :)

I would like to keep this topic alive a little while longer. My biggest unanswered question remains: Does anyone out there know of a good book that fully and faithfully addresses the issue; Humanitarianism vs. the Gospel?I love to hear a good sermon, but the scope of this issue is too broad to be covered in a single sermon, I'm afraid.The rest of this is basically to answer the previous posting by SeanHobson. Thanks Sean for taking the time to reply!I am(growing up in a very materalistic enviorment) struggling with this sin also. Don't struggle - repent! This is a major area where we are giving into Satan's attack. He wants to give us the kingdoms of the world. I ran into a site while trying to find some free books online. It is http://www.worldinvisible.com. Ernest O' Neill has hundreds of hours of videotaped messages from sometime in the '70s regarding growing in the spiritual life. The one thing he said in one of the earlier messages that especially hit home with me was that, IF you're living a carnal life, there was a decision that the Holy Spirit put in front of you at some point in your past, but you did your own thing. Once He's revealed that to you go back and correct it. For me that was giving all I had and walking with Him. I didn't do it then when it would have been much easier, but I am correcting that all but fatal error now - by His grace! I can tell you just from the glance at that book your thinking of giving those new converts. DO NOT DO IT BROTHER! It's like this see; there will be three copies in three languages, and all us sharing. When it comes to parts that are in error, it will dealt with then and there. What college professor, when forced to use a book that he disagreed with didn't take the time to discuss the sections that were controversial? Often the very parts that are subjected to this kind of scrutiny have more impact for the attention given them. The part I'm worried about is the fact that I was schooled into believing this myself once upon a time, so I need to check myself. I would never just give a book to a newborn Christian and not disciple them. The language barrier here makes it all the more crucial. Stay away from Main stream Christianity and stick to the bible. There are lots of good online translations of the King James Bible in i believe other languages. If you can't find faithful stuff to help your brother and sisters out, go through the bible with them. Thats all we really need anyway :)My friends and I are going through the New Testament. The only problem is that I don't know what theirs says unless they point out a problem to me. Problems continually crop up even in the modern versions. From what I gather, there is no translation for the word 'Church' that doesn't convey the idea of a building or large structured institution.The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much (James 5:16) turns into something like "groveling in prayer" in the 2002 NT. A good translation is only possible from the original manuscripts to the intended target language. Going from the original language to a second language (as in the KJV) then to another language is a big mistake. Many things translate directly from Greek and Hebrew to Thai that don't translate at all well into English. So filtering them through English is a singularly bad idea. First, as a linguist and student of Greek (plus a little Hebrew), I'm not a KJV only guy. Living in another culture it is an all but useless translation. If a person here understands a little modern English, they certainly aren't accustomed to 400 year old English. I believe God wants to communicate, not confuse. As I mentioned earlier, the Thai Bibles are a big part of the problem, so far as I've been able to figure out. The earliest version was a translation from the KJV, I’m told. It's possible that this translation is a tragedy. The translators made it extra religious sounding instead of extra accessible. As Koine was the common man's Greek of the NT. The KJV was translated into Thai using Thai Royal speech - very elitist stuff - not at all the speech of the common people. Religious people love it! Imagine! An EXTRA Holy Bible! What's not to love! Having been given these new believers to teach, I have to be true to the message that God has lain on my heart of late. They have to leave me able to teach others as I have taught them. I can't police their Bibles. I can't do anything of the sort. It's up to His Sovereignty! All I can say is what God has been telling me. I need to be kept on track so that they get a balanced message containing all or most of what a Christian needs to live a life of faith. It would be helpful to find some solid resources to keep me on track when I wade through not only the published untruth but also the preached untruth and the mutually agreed upon untruth of the Church of Leodicea. The first step is that I need to get back to the original Gospel. I know that Humanism stands in my way, so I need to get an understanding of how to change my mind about that - repent of that.Talking to a Thai pastor a few months ago. I asked him why he didn't emphasize repentance in the message. He said, "This is Thailand, they'll beat you up!"He kicked me out of his church a couple weeks ago.Jeffrey

I would suggest reading some of the articles on the psychoheresy website. There's also a good book by Dave Hunt entitled "The Seduction of Christianity."There was also a recent sermon by Pastor Carter Conlin entitled "Escaping the Theology of Babylon." A MP3 version of the sermon is available here: December 2005 sermon by Carter Conlon.As to your comments about all the differing Bibles, I pray the Holy Spirit gives you discernment as you seek His face. My wife is Korean and we struggle a bit with it at times because it's actually a translation of the Chinese Bible into Korean which came from the English Bible which came from the original languages. That being said, I know that the Holy Spirit continues to minister to my Korean brothers and sisters, despite some of the inherent problems.Just be faithful to what Jesus has asked to do. That's all He asks of us... Blessings to you Jeff.

Thankyou for the encouraging words brother. I only recommended the KJV because it is the most faithful in the "english" language. I am not familiar with Thai, so as you have already insisted another translation faithful in that langauge may be more useful. God bless and I will no doubt check out the site ye have shared with me. I must repent for worldliness and materalism..

There's an excellent book that Ravenhill recommended in one of his books entitled "The Golden Cow: Materialism in the Twentieth-Century Church" by John White. There are many copies that you can pick up quite cheaply and it's a relatively short read.I have a number of other ones which I've read bits and pieces. I would pray for discernment and simply read what He tells you.

Hi Jeffery,My, you sound very well on your way from what can be ascertained from all this, at least in regards to grappling with the main issue you mentioned. Will see what else we can find in this regards.Have often wondered about the difficulty in translating into other languages as has already been pointed out. This may be something you have already come across but for what it is worth; http://www.wbtc.com/downloads/thai_downloads_main.htm Also, that is an incredible testimony there brother, including that sacrifice ... almost afraid to ask if it was a Les Paul.

An outtake from American history;The humanitarians are more dangerous in principle than the egoists, for they have the appearance of building on a broader and deeper foundation, of being more Christian, more philosophic, more generous and philanthropic; but Satan is never more successful than under the guise of an angel of light. His favorite guise in modern times is that of philanthropy. He is a genuine humanitarian, and aims to persuade the world that humanitarianism is Christianity, and that man is God; that the soft and charming sentiment of philanthropy is real Christian charity; and he dupes both individuals and nations, and makes them do his work, when they believe they are earnestly and most successfully doing the work of God. Your leading abolitionists are as much affected by satanophany as your leading confederates, nor are they one whit more philosophical or less sophistical The one loses the race, the otter the individual, and neither has learned to apply practically that fundamental truth that there is never the general without the particular, nor the particular without the general, the race without individuals, nor individuals without the race. The whole race was in Adam, and fell in him, as we are taught by the doctrine of original sin, or the sin of the race, and Adam was an individual, as we are taught in the fact that original sin was in him actual or personal sin.The humanitarian is carried away by a vague generality, and loses men in humanity, sacrifices the rights of men in a vain endeavor to secure the rights of man, as your Calvinist or his brother Jansenist sacrifices the rights of nature in order to secure the freedom of grace. Yesterday he agitated for the abolition of slavery, to-day he agitates for negro suffrage, negro equality, and announces that when he has secured that he will agitate for female suffrage and the equality of the sexes, forgetting or ignorant that the relation of equality subsists only between individuals of the same sex; that God made the man the head of the woman, and the woman for the man, not the man for the woman. Having obliterated all distinction of sex in politics, in social, industrial, and domestic arrangements, he must go farther, and agitate for equality of property, But since property, if recognized at all, will be unequally acquired and distributed, he must go farther still, and agitate for the total abolition of property, as an injustice, a grievous wrong, a theft, with M. Proudhon, or the Englishman Godwin. It is unjust that one should have what another wants, or even more than another. What right have you to ride in your coach or astride your spirited barb while I am forced to trudge on foot? Nor can our humanitarian stop there. Individuals are, and as long as there are individuals will be, unequal: some are handsomer and some are uglier, some wiser or sillier, more or less gifted, stronger or weaker, taller or shorter, stouter or thinner than others, and therefore some have natural advantages which others have not. There is inequality, therefore injustice, which can be remedied only by the abolition of all individualities, and the reduction of all individuals to the race, or humanity, man in general. He can find no limit to his agitation this side of vague generality, which is no reality, but a pure nullity, for he respects no territorial or individual circumscriptions, and must regard creation itself as a blunder. This is not fancy, for he has gone very nearly as far as it is here shown, if logical, he must go.http://www.constitution.org/oab/am_rep14.htm

Hey! Sincere thanks to you all for replying. I wanted to thank each of you personally.Help! The more I find out about humanism, the more I see how it has permeated my life! This would be funny if it wasn't so serious!To Mike Balog: Thanks for the History info and SO Much for the Thai Bible Link. I believe that will be put to good use. No it wasn't a Les Paul it was an ES125TCD. Not as valuable, but much loved. Money well spent to bring a baby girl into the world into an ex-Sikh, ex-Buddhist family now dedicated to Jesus Christ! Hallelujah! Just one less material thing between me and Him!The following is an unashamed advertisement! I still have lots of guitars, mandolins and recording equipment for sale! Maybe they can rescue more families for Jesus!To Habbakuk3: Thanks! Thanks for being there for me. Bless you for your input. I know God can use these translations of translations of translations. God convicted me of the fact I have so many translations to use. How about those that don't have anything other than what they carry around in their heads? In the beginning of “The Heavenly Man", Brother Yun was led to (commanded to go to?) the Lord by his backslidden Mother when they learned that his Father had cancer. The lady didn't know anything about scriptural truth, and said that none of Jesus sayings or teachings had survived. Yet she knew that Jesus was her only hope! She made all her children believe, and the husband was healed. Later, Brother Yun agonized for months to get a Bible. He'd never even seen one! Also I checked out the Psychoheresy site and bookmarked it. There is a lot there. I'll check out the Babylon sermon soon.To Dorcas: Thanks for your help. One nice Bible here is a side-by-side Thai/TEV. I'm kinda Schitzotheological. I like a nice fluid modern Bible, but want accuracy too! When a translated word like church gives everyone the impression that it basically means buildings, and they go off operating based on that misconception, it really bothers me. I'm zealous for the Lord to express Himself in His body. I'm a house church proponent and turned my back on being what the modern church defines as a pastor years ago (though that's what I am - one of the overseers) I just love to see others grow and share.SeanHobson! Repent! I wanted to say this softer to you the first time I wrote it to you, but then I thought... just leave it, and gave you O'Neill's links. Actually "Repent" is probably one of the nicest things we can say to each other! Do you not realize that it is the 'kindness' of God that leads us to repentance! (Romans 2:4). I wish I had one of those angels on my shoulder like in the old movies urging me to repent when I am blind to my behavior (or going headlong into it eyes wide open) Forget that devil on the other shoulder - Do you think he'd ever urge you to repent! There is a nice little sermon on SI by my old teacher, J. Edwin Orr entitled - The First Word of the Gospel (i.e. repent). Definitely worth a listen.Regarding turning our backs on materialism: I think that this is such a huge thing for the Kingdom. I’m not even 10% of the way there. Please pray for me. Thanks Everybody!Jeffrey