Just putting it out there.....many times after funerals we hear the Pastors say.....Well he's in a better place, or she's with God now in Paradise. If this is this true, what is the biblical foundation for this doctrinal teaching that after we die we go directly our eternal resting place heaven or hell?
"Let not your heart be troubled; you believe in God, believe also in Me. In My Father's house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you. And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also." John 14:1-5Heaven Is Where God Lives. :-)
So, are we asleep when we die awaiting judgement or do we go directly to heaven?
Absent from body prsent with God.
Ok, if we are present with God in Heaven,that means that we have already been judged, so if we are already judged the moment we die, then what happens during the second coming of Christ. Is all heaven and hell gathered together again for a second judgement?
Hi Desijr...!I think that I understand what you are asking. Unfortunately, there is alot of speculation about this, with very little consensus. There are some passages in the Bible that seem to indicate that we go directly to eternity, while others seem to indicate that we await. To the thief on the cross, Jesus told him, "Today you will be with me in paradise." Yet there are other passages that seem to indicate that there is a waiting period.Does someone go directly to Heaven when they die?Personally, I believe that a person does not (sort of). I believe that when a person dies, its as if they are asleep. This confirms some of the things that Jesus said concerning the dead "sleeping," as well as the Old Testament references about a particular individual "resting" with their father. I believe that on the last day (at the trumpet call), the dead will be raised. However, I believe that much of the seeming discrepency is due to our limited understanding of the concept of time. There is no such thing as time in eternity. Or perhaps more correctly, time is not what we think it to be. Many thousands of years can pass in just a moment of eternity. I believe that it is possible that when a person dies, that person rests here on earth. However, in a seeming instant, all of human history is fulfilled. They "awake" in judgment -- seeing even those that lived and died after they did. I've always imagined that, when I see the Lord for the first time face-to-face, thousands of earthly years could pass without my ever even noticing!This topic has been discussed at length in certain other threads (particularly those on eternity or judgment). You can use the "search" function at the top of the homepage to look for those. But this is an interesting topic of discussion! :-) By the way, welcome to the forums!
1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.Now this whole thing stems from this communion business for that is where these scriptures are taken from. This is why I take the stand against the literal breaking of bread and the literal drinking of the wine as the actual communion of the saints. Jesus said, John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.Christ is not interested in us eating bread and drinking wine at Easter or every second Sunday, but there is something more here because it involves the resurrection.Jesus said, 1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me."THIS DO YE" this is the mystery in these 3 words. Now remember everything that Jesus said was under the Old Covenant, for He was born under the law, which is Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come,and not the very image of the things , can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.Listen to me, we have glorified the images more than Jesus Christ who is our meat who hath come down from heaven that men might eat thereof and not die.Jesus said, John 4:34 ....., My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.Meat = Is doing the Will of God.Someone might say what does this has to do with Heaven or the Resurrection, Jesus ties the resurrection into the communion.Lets take a look at what this drink is, He says it's His blood. And He also says that if you don't drink His blood you have no life in you.Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.I got to stop here, I got to go. I would love to continue this, but it's something to chew on my dear friends.LS
1 Corinthians 11:31 For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged. 32 But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.Now this whole thing stems from this communion business for that is where these scriptures are taken from. This is why I take the stand against the literal breaking of bread and the literal drinking of the wine as the actual communion of the saints. Jesus said, John 6:54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.Christ is not interested in us eating bread and drinking wine at Easter or every second Sunday, but there is something more here because it involves the resurrection.Jesus said, 1 Corinthians 11:25 After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me."THIS DO YE" this is the mystery in these 3 words. Now remember everything that Jesus said was under the Old Covenant, for He was born under the law, which is Hebrews 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come,and not the very image of the things , can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.Listen to me, we have glorified the images more than Jesus Christ who is our meat who hath come down from heaven that men might eat thereof and not die.Jesus said, John 4:34 ....., My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work.Meat = Is doing the Will of God.Someone might say what does this has to do with Heaven or the Resurrection, Jesus ties the resurrection into the communion.Lets take a look at what this drink is, He says it's His blood. And He also says that if you don't drink His blood you have no life in you.Genesis 9:4 But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat.I got to stop here, I got to go. I would love to continue this, but it's something to chew on my dear friends.LS
I think we go immediately to heaven, and would agree with Chris that our time and God's kingdom are not on the same schedule. This could also explain the Day of the Lord, in that on God's time, Abel does not stand by in heaven, waiting for the rest of the saints. But one day to God sees the death (and translation) of all the saints and sinners throughout eternity.I would like to hear some other takes on this, though. I have heard some interesting ones.
WOW, this is something else that I have been thinking and praying about recently.Does the soul sleep when the body dies? Does the soul immediately go to heaven with the Lord?Here is a question that I have wrestled with lately:How many "heavenly/glorified" bodies can a believer receive...according to scripture?- 1. Because when the body dies the soul sleeps only to be ressurected on the last day.- 2. 1 if the person dies before the ressurection and another when the ressurection/second coming occurs.I am interested to see how this discussion plays out because I honestly have no clue.What has been stuck in my mind is the word "sleep"When I fall asleep at night, the next thing I am aware of is the sound of my alarm clock. I was in my bed for 7+ hours...but it seemed like an instant to me.God Bless this discussion
God the Father is the source of all life - we see that in Genesis. He gave His Son not only the power to give life, but eternal life. Let's look at John Chapter 5:21 For as the Father raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom He will.22 For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgment to the Son,23 that all should honor the Son just as they honor the Father. He who does not honor the Son does not honor the Father who sent Him.So it is Christ who will judge us, not the Father. Through His judgments, He will issue acceptace (life eternal) or condemnation (everlasting death):24 Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears My word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life.25 Most assuredly, I say to you, the hour is coming, and now is, when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God; and those who hear will live.26 For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the Son to have life in Himself,27 and has given Him authority to execute judgment also, because He is the Son of Man.28 Do not marvel at this; for the hour is coming in which all who are in the graves will hear His voice29 and come forth—those who have done good, to the resurrection of life, and those who have done evil, to the resurrection of condemnation.This passage implies that all remain in their graves until called by Christ. Some argue that there are two resurections that are a thousand years apart, citing Rev. 20:5: "But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection."About Christ telling the thief, ""TODAY YOU WILL BE WITH ME IN PARADISE" - I think Christ was reassuring the man of hope, not preaching a sermon. Too often we overlook Christ's clear teachings when trying to interpret his cries from the cross. So many think that Christ was confused why His Father forsook Him on the cross by His cry, "My God, My God, Why hast Thou forsaken Me!?" - When in fact, Christ was quoting Scripture (Psalm 22.) If you read the rest of Psalm 22, you will see David prophesize about the suffering death of the Christ.Jesus was talking of "paradise", the same word used in Revelation 2:7:"He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To him who overcomes, I will grant to eat of the tree of life which is in the Paradise of God."Jesus was using the term "today" not literally, for that would conflict with His clear teaching that judgment (which preceeds the giving of eternal life or death) would come on the last day. Remember, to God a day is like a thousand years (2 Peter 3:8), and I believe when we step into eternity, the perception of time ceases. I think the Apostle Paul will perceive appearing at the judgment the same time you and I will.There are parts of Scripture that people try to use to indicate that saints are already with God, such as the Mount of Transfirguation, where Moses and Elijah appeared. But the Bible tells us that no one ever found either prophet's body, although Satan and the archangel Michael did fight over Moses' body, as Jude tells us. Many think Moses was raptured, and it is apparent that Elijah was.The fact that Samuel appeared to Saul after he died doesn't suggest that saints go straight to heaven after death, either. Samuel was allowed by God to be disturbed (stray from a normal course) to deliver a final condemnation of Saul. This was an exception, not the norm.So, can we say of the dead in Christ, "Well, they are in a better place now."? Considering that OUR perception of time doesn't matter concerning THEM, I think we can still say the above. To THEM, their perception of time doesn't remain constant with ours, so to them, they might already be approaching the throne of heaven, while here on earth it might be a millineum away.-Chris
"Because the Lord Himself, with a shout of command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, will decend from heaven, and the dead in Christ shall rise first."This verse says, "The dead in Christ shall rise" it does not say, "the dead in Christ will decend from heaven, be reunited with their bodies and then rise to meet the Lord in the air."The souls of the dead are in Paradies, which is in hades. Paradies is the portion of hades (the abode of the dead) where the souls of the just remain until the resurrection.Paradies is not in heaven, Paul in 2 cor said, two things, "I was caught away into the third heaven" and also "I was caught away into Paradise'. Two distinct places.The Lord is Present within us now (if we are believers.) And when we die we will be present with the Lord to a greater degree. He indwells us and will not cease to indwell us when we die but we will be free from the flesh and able to enjoy Him completely, though awaiting the "redemption of our body and it's transfiguration into a body like unto His body of Glory.When we are clothed with our resurrected glorified body it will be permeated with the Divine Life and will not be the fallen flesh. It will be like the Lord's resurrection body. It is sown in dishoner, but raised in glory. Graftedbranch
So Jesus went to this "holding cell of the just" when He died? (referencing what He said to the thief)-Chris
So Jesus went to this "holding cell of the just" when He died? (referencing what He said to the thief)No one said anything concerning a "cell". But rather the abode of the dead. Christ decended into Hades. Conserning the resurrection of Christ in Acts 2:31,32 Peter says:"He (David), seeing this beforehand, spoke concerning the resurrection of the Christ, that neither was He abandoned to Hades, nor did His flesh see corruption,. This Jesus God has raised up, of which we all are witnesses."The fact of His not "being abandoned to Hades" is seen in the resurrection. He went there but was not left there.In Mathew 12:24 the Lord Jesus said, "For just as Johah was in the belly of the great fish three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights."Ephesians 4:9 says:Now this, "He ascended", what is it except that He also decended into the lower parts of the earth?" Here Paul equates, "the heart of the earth" to "the lower parts of the earth.". This phrase is used in Psalm 63:9 which says that those who are given over to the power of the sword, "Go into the lower parts of the earth".These passages plainly tell us that after the Lord's death and before His resurrection, His body was buried in the earth, but His spirit decended to Hades.but Hades is not "hell" as the Authorised KJ translates. It is the place of the dead. And "Paradise" or "Abraham's bossom" is in Hades. Graftedbranch
Okay, I have always wondered this:If Jesus paid our fine by his suffering death, but still went to Paradise for three days, then that means our fine for breaking God's laws is physical death only.What about the spiritual death? - "The soul that sins, it shall die" -Ezekiel 18:4When did Jesus pay our SPIRITUAL fine? When did His soul die (eternal death = hell)?I am only reasoning here, etertaining thoughts, not trying to teach or spread any doctrine. I think I know the answer already, but wanted to bounce this off you guys to see what you thought...-Chris
When did Jesus pay our SPIRITUAL fine? When did His soul die (eternal death = hell)?The Lord Jesus on the Cross said: "My God, My God, why has thou forsaken Me". following this He said, "It is finished".The Lord suffered separation from the Father. This was "spiritual death" to Him. But Eternal Redemption was accomplished on the Cross. And His Blood has Eternal efficacy by virtue of His Divinity.Every reference to redemption is tied in with the Cross. Christ died on the Cross for a propitiation for our sins. God made Him who knew no sin to become sin on our behalf, that we might become the rightousness of God in Him.His death on the Cross was sufficient.Graftedbranch
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