Music etc

Music etcI used to be very into music. When I really gave myself to the Lord, I threw away most of my music. That was over ten years ago. I still love music but I feel a check when I'm browsing in HMV etc. My question is...is that check just me or is it the Lord?I've thought about it a lot over the years and I would be very grateful for other people's views. I'll try and summarise mine. Music consists of lyrics and, yes, music! If we start with the lyrics, I think that most of you would agree that where a song expresses a spirit that is 'anti-Christ' then we would not want to listen to it. For example, it may be a song that exhorts drug use, is sexual etc. But what about those lyrics that are 'neutral'? My concern there is that the lyrics may not be overtly anti-Christ but they are an expression of a world view that is at its root anti-Christ and which is a world view that I cannot have fellowship with. Music is of course much more than lyrics. Music is itself an expression of our view of the world. In the music we express who we are. A depressed guitarist plays the blues! The same problem arises. That world view is not of or in Christ, it is anti-Christ and so should I listen to the music? I think that music is a very powerful medium and can affect us deeply so we should be careful. It is interesting that most contemporary Christian music is pretty poor. Is this becuase the Church is trying to imitate the world? The world does it so much better.Strangely, I don't seem to have the same problem with (most) classiscal music. Is this becuase I am culture-bound or is it becuase that music, although written by non-Christians, came out of a culture that shared many Christian values?Any ideas?

Griffo, To me these words of a hymn says it all: Turn your eyes upon Jesus, and the things of earth will grow strangely dim.Indeed music, whether in or out of the church is all part of this world. Some day it won't exist (as we know it) So, I say, focus on Christ and the Word. Spend time with God. Our calling is to love God and love others. When we have that straight, then we'll find that our minds dwelling on the important matters of our calling. One time, as an choir accompanist, I was disturbed by some words of a modern song (a bit new age). So I said I couldn't play it. The director got very upset, and it cause a turmoil to everyone. The Lord got a hold of me and told me that my commitment was to that choir - the people. He wasn't concerned about the words of the song, but instead he wanted my life to be Christlike. So I appologized and played it. You see, it is people, people, people who must come first. We are called to be lights of God's love in the world. Songs are just that, songs, and often people don't pay near as much attention to them as we assume. But they take our love and respect for them seriously. God can help us know where to draw the line. He can also lead us away from music that he feels distracts us from him. (If we let him) You mentioned about Classical music ( a very broad term). I think that most of the bad, flimsy stuff gets washed out over the course of time, and what is really good stays on. Many of the composers were visionaries - far beyond the cultural trends of their day. They wrote music that transcended their own culture. And it was brilliant - and stayed on. Maybe that is something for us to consider. We don't have to join in with the masses of our culture, who merely go with the flow and are quite content with the mediocre. Another thought: I believe that even the best of Christian music can get in the way of God's best for us. Music can become too important to us. Diane

I don't believe all secular music is bad. In fact, I have found that some Christian music leave as bad a taste in my mouth as some secular music. I do enjoy some secular music. Older stuff. CCR, James Taylor, and some 80's stuff. I used to like all of it...from heavy metal to the grateful dead. I stopped listening to it, not so much because I thought it was wrong, but because as I grow in Christ I just want to fill myself more and more with things that speak of him or worship him. That includes music. So really, I stopped listening to secular music because I actually grew to prefer Christian music. (which shocked me because I originally hated it)

A depressed guitarist plays the blues! The same problem arises. That world view is not of or in Christ, it is anti-Christ and so should I listen to the music?read many psalms? ;-) I hear what your saying though griffo i used to be majorly in to heavy metal, even satanic stuff, and by that i mean real satanic stuff not marilyn manson, slipknot etc. and others who do it for show, when i was saved of course i chucked all that stuff out, most off them are now used to scare birds off in my back garden, eventually i ended up listening to just stuff like coldplay, moby, chemical brothers etc.Then after coming back from a conference last year i decided to listen to only music with christian lyrics, well that lasted probably 7 months, this very instant im listening to chemical brothers again, am i like a dog returning to his own vomit? i don't know. sorry i just find secular music to be better, i believe ive found the best christian bands for my taste in music out there, and none of them come close to the music i used to listen to, by this i mean indie/electro not metal of course.my mp3 player contains mostly christian music but the secular is added to almost daily, i do of course draw the line at swearing, sexual content, drugs etcjust my current thoughtsmatt

A week or so after I was converted, I still had all of my secular CDs. I had a big cd case full of them and a very small cd case of a few Christian CD's others had given me. The Lord told me to get rid of the secular CD's but I decided that they were worth too much money and that I would just keep them around and not just throw them away. I was on my lunch break thinking about it. I locked my car, rolled up the windows and went back to work. After the day was over I went back to my car and.... my secular CD case was gone, which was sitting right next to my smaller CD case (which had Christian music). It just disappeared... I don't know if someone stole them or what. All I know is that they were gone and the Christian ones were still there. That's about all it took for me to decide!I haven't owned a secular CD since. The only time I hear secular music would be while in a store or in some similar situation.

I waited patiently for the LordHe inclined and heard my cryHe brought me up out of the pitOut of the miry clayI will sing, sing a new songI will sing, sing a new songHow long to sing this songHow long to sing this songHow long, how long, how longHow long to sing this songHe set my feet upon a rockAnd made my footsteps firmMany will seeMany will see and hearI will sing, sing a new songI will sing, sing a new songI will sing, sing a new songI will sing, sing a new songHow long to sing this song How long to sing this song How long, how long, how long How long to sing this songAnyone who has a broad music pallet, unlike myself - would know that this is U2.U2 can be regarded as a secular band, however they have done a lot of songs that are able to go both ways.My point?Not all music is bad just because it doesn't have a Christian label on it. I have heard 'Christian music' which has got very little if any Christ content in it at all.However, in my case if the song has excessive swearing, cursing, blasphemy, sex and so forth then I don't feel inclined to want to listen to it.Michael

Griffo,From your question it seems to me the Holy Spirit is teaching you so I would just ask Him. Say something like this: Lord, do you not want me to listen to this? And if you are willing to be obedient, he will tell you and then do it. This is living by faith...ginnyrose

I have heard 'Christian music' which has got very little if any Christ content in it at all.I would have to agree to that. I would say that it is not "Christian" unless it is glorifing God or the Christ of God. I remember when I was a sinner that I use to hear Christian music and I couldn't tell the difference between it and a love song. Sounded the same to me.. I couldn't necessarily tell it was about God. I was listening to some music on the radio the other day and the same thought went through my head..

We've been here before a few times. Check this out.

Something to think about, "It's not what's bad in it, but what is good in it?"

That's the question.

I found CJaKfOrEsT's link useful for measuring my own change regarding this reoccurring topic. For what it's worth, I enjoy a wide variety of Christian music...from Michael W. Smith to Arvo Part...but I think these appetites, like all pleasures, should be kept in check, and used appropriately.

These days I am more apt to agree that Combat C's question is the right one. Radio friendly CCM is not really a concern to me one way of the other...it's the sanctuary worship music that I think needs more discussion and review.

Not to play a sour note here ;-) but I am sad by the emergence of casual social frivolity within the worship service. Perhaps some will disagree... I feel the church santuary should be a hallmark of reverence and Godly behavior that challenges us to live in the presence of God throughout the week. Yet, too often the santuary has become a people place instead of a Holy Spirit place. Contemporary church music is a big part of this problem...the so-called praise and worship movement has become a horizontal marketing tool...and no longer a vertical worship instrument.

At least this is my conclusion when I look back on my past 10-15 years playing on various worship teams.

Blessings all,

MC

heya all......

firstly i would love to stae that i hate secular music.

secondly i hate the majority of the so called "christian music" thats going around today.

thirdly i love the old hymns from Wesley and also i enjoy christian rap.......(which is only the old hymn style of poetry fastened up)

i know a lot of ppl hate christian rap in this forum because they state its "wordly"...........thus to those people i would love to ask these questions.

What genre of music do you listen to that has not originated in the world?

lol u have fell on your sword if you argue any more from there.....

anyway heres some music i love, from a christian rapper called "Trip Lee"

Trip Lee - ITOK - Gotta Grow
Song: Gotta Grow
Artist: Tony Stone
Album: If They Only Knew
 2006 Reach Records, LLC.

Gotta Grow

Verse 1:
I wasn’t never the type that’s tryna kill folks
Nothing too bad maybe dabbled in a lil smoke
A lil lust, but wasn’t never seen as a bad dude
Was livin for myself dreamed of wealth and makin cash move
Was told of a savior who raised named Jesus
That paid full of grace and I did believe it
They told me He would hold me and I was blessed wit Christ
I’m like, “I get to go to Heaven? Man I’m set for life.”
But after that, I was just ya average Sunday Christian
Up in church wit my bible, back Monday sinning
Up in the school yard trying hard to blend in
Was acting dead as a carcass and far from livin
I was all up in the world, I was just like the rest of them
Called myself a Christian, but would sin with the best of them
I wouldn’t share my faith or read my Word its crazy
I was a immature believer, a spiritual baby

Hook:
We gotta grow, we can’t stay in the same place
We gotta grow, we gotta be seeking His face
We gotta grow, so if you saved and you’ve been pardoned
We gotta grow, you ain’t done you just getting started
(Repeat)

Verse 2:
I was my own guide, would never dive in His truth
But didn’t realize that I was set aside for His use
So I’d just live for what I thought was my best interest
Around nonbelievers you couldn’t tell the difference
Wasn’t a thug, nah I ain’t got no horror story
But was living for myself not the Lord and His glory
My confession: I didn’t seek my Dad’s perfection
Was going down the wrong road like I had bad directions
Until He showed my not imitating the Christ
And living for me I was truly wasting my life
And that Christ died so I could have relationship
But by my actions I refused to take this gift
Until He made a switch and now I want some more of Him daily
By His grace I’m growing and have matured from a baby
I’m so grateful that I’ve been torn from sin
And day by day He’s making me more like Him

Hook

Verse 3:
So for my believers, I just wanna encourage yall
To draw closer to the Lord I know you heard His call
Even if you ain’t smoking or shooting at domes
If you don’t do it all for His glory, you doing it wrong
Heaven ain’t the only reason we got saved
If we don’t get to know Jesus then we got played
Plus we gotta change, He said He’d change us all
And that faith without fruit, that ain’t faith at all
Sanctification, check Romans 6
We ‘posed to switch, die to sin and grow in holiness
All my brothers and sister I know this walk is tough
But even if you young just getting saved is not enough
We gotta talk to Him, read who the Lord in the skies is
The reason we breathe is to enjoy and glorify Him
I’m grateful the Father is changing ya boy
And getting closer to Him is an unexplainable joy

Hook

God bless yall!

Here's another song that i enjoy by a sold out believer named Lecrae.

116 Clique - Fanatic
Song: Fanatic
Artist: Lecrae
Album: The Compilation Album
 2005 Reach Records, LLC.

Fanatic

I'm a F-A-N-A-T-I-C, Fanatic
I rep Christ till I D-I-E, Fanatic
I'm not extreme, I'm redeemed with faith
to serve a God whose extremely great
I'm a Fanatic

The world's trying to tidy up, exfoliate they skin
but only Christ can come and exfoliate they sin
And they fate look grim, If they don't take him
As the high priest he is to mediate they sin
The world's got to many Gods, man we choose the one
From hebrews, he rules, he bruised his son
He moves the sun
So if we prayin and our schools call us fools
Cuz our God's too true to shun
Channels two in one
Man it looks insane
TV make a lot Christians seem dramatically strange
Though we may be looked upon as one and same
We will not turn in shame, we proclaim the name
Christ Jesus, believe us, you ain't gotta recieve us
but we gon' follow our God wherever the bible lead us
And you can call us dramatic, fanatic, emphatic
But hate while you at it, take a look at our mathematics

Chorus

What can I do to make it simple, make it plain
Christ came, emptied himself and let out sin hang him
You couldn't blame him for any sin
While they singing many men
The crucifixion was pretty grim
But when we state the fact that God resurrects
We get funny looks from a world that doesn't get
We are not David Koresh or Krishna
Or the people on TV who glorifying their bishop
From Edwards to Piper, MacAurther to Spurgeon
From Dallas to France, From Cali to Berlin
As Christians all over who getting the word in
We ain't crazy we just understand the truth and we burdened
The world sees us as evangelical Christians
As narrow-minded fanatics with a mythical mission
Labeled extremists for sharing out faith
But thats cool, we can carry the weight of persecution
Cuz earth is losing
And if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using
So keep it moving
Cuz if we yelling the truth
We honored to be the people that our God is using

Chorus

They thought Jesus was out of his mind
they laughed and mocked him
Called him a cult leader and they tried to stop him
Pharisees said Christ got his power from Satan
Hatin', on the very one that came to save 'em
Even after he rose, man the world ain't changed
They still rejecting the name, still look at us strange
Still tell us without shame that our faith's insane
and, "it don't take all that to be a Christian man"
And its hard when you tryin to reach your family and stuff
They say man, "you too spiritual, you doing to much"
So we show them the love of Christ and live in the light
So they can glorify our God when they look at our life
And we win for sharing the truth and hearts get changed
We win if we're rejected because of his name
We win if seeds get planted and watered and grow
But even if we lost, we still be Fanatical though

Chorus

Isn't the term 'praise and worship' a bit of a con in itself? Both 'praise' and 'worship' have their places in scripture, and they are very distinctly different.

Are Christians being spiritually misinformed by this trite phraseology?

Ex:
contemporary
traditional
hymn
chorus
gospel
new age (style)
“worshipful”
sacred
secular
praise
worship
prayerful
“from the heart”
spirit-filled

any more?

Diane

I just completed an intense week at a summer music festival - working along with 500 + staff and students from ages four to seventy-four, of multi ethnic/national origin from beginners to international artists, from Bach to Jazz, from quiet meditative singing to energetic bands.

To me, the experience was spiritually enriching. Yet I was reluctant to share on SI - not wanting to become overly wearisome about my musical-related musings. So I laid out a fleece: The topic of music would come to the surface. And alas - I returned to SI and this thread was up on the top.

AUTHORITY – A PREREQUISITE TO BEAUTIFUL MUSIC

Last night while watching the best of the musicians perform various musical group numbers, I could not help but be impressed by their submission to the leader. All were focused was on the conductor. Not one made even the tiniest peep outside of his desire. If earlier on there had been any disagreements, I could not tell. All ego-centric desires and differences were all washed away during those glorious moments of musical presentation. And the audience jumped up for joy.

Each performer in the concert was an authority in his/her field, and yet understood the need to submit to authority – but not merely during that event last night - clearly, they had learned to live a life of submission to those who had more authority (knowledge, skill, etc) than they had.

I thought about the value of submitting to divine authority – to lay aside our ego-centric desires and instead center our entire will, heart, and mind on the will of God. Oh, this is no passive condition where we sit back and “let” the Spirit do whatever through us. If musicians viewed submission like that, you’d have a very immature group and a wishy-washy sound.

Submission takes effort – focus and concentration, and intense self-discipline, and self-control. It is an entire life-style. That is really the life Christ calls us to.

In our age of individualism and do-your-own-thingism, we have stopped seeing the need to surrender our ego-centric desires, and submit to those who are given (and indeed HAVE) authority. And the result: we are wasting so much potential.

I’ve often wondered why our churches (of all places) are plagued with problems that reflect an embarrassing level of immaturity. Why is it that so much turmoil revolves around the kind of music that is actually associated with adolescent pop culture? Why have we sunk so low?

I suspect that our church authorities (and also parents) - those who have been delegated authority, actually do not HAVE authority, because they themselves have never lived submissive lives. They think that they have arrived, so they never care to grow. You can’t expect people to rise above their authorities.

“A student is not above his teacher,
nor a servant above his master.” Matt. 10:24

Perhaps the best way to overcome immaturity issues in our churches is not so much by addressing of fighting them (won’t help), but by ourselves submitting to our Lord and seeking to grow in maturity and understanding. After all, our words will carry very little authority (weight) if we ourselves have not lived the life of submission to authorities in the areas we are addressing – divine and or/and human.

Thanks much for the insights, wisdom, and experience Dorcas and Roadsign.

Dorcas, regarding the trite use of words in the church, I certainly agree. On a related side note, it would be interesting to see how much this condition has been influenced by the American retailing of Christianity. It's fair to say that "Praise and Worship" isn't employed for it's biblical history....it's a product category within the Christian Booksellers Association. (edit: I'm not decrying the CBA...just pointing out it's possible influence on how we think and talk about church.)Words like contemporary, classic, praise and worship, prophetic, pastoral, devotional, leadership, and many others now function as niche categories at retail...they tell us what kind of book, or music, or conference we are purchasing. This subtle daily saturation on product placement doesn't seem odd to us, untill perhaps we would ever hear someone outside of our borders using our familiar Christian-retail speak.

Diane, it sounds like you were at a high caliber workshop! I really like seeing a well-led ensemble do what they do...it really can serve as picture of the body of Christ. Inversely....I would also say that the impuslive, undesciplined contemporary music of the day also serves as a metaphor.

those who have been delegated authority, actually do not HAVE authority, because they themselves have never lived submissive lives

In the end I have to admit, I am not over preoccupied about church music one way or the other. Perhaps this is because I see it as an art for worship rather then a heart for worship.

To be frank, inspite of the irony that Praise and Worship music is the leading Christian music category at retail, I don't think the North American church is very worshipful...so it seems rather obnoxious for us to contantly be turning up our amplifiers and banging on our drums everytime we come together. Perhaps humble silence, reflections of abasement and adoration at the altar, might just be the most apt spiritual, musical (and artistic) expression of the emptiness of glory in our churches.

MC

seems rather obnoxious for us to contantly be turning up our amplifiers

Diane, it sounds like you were at a high caliber workshop!

By the way, there was a zero tolerance policy regarding unacceptable behavior. I think all the kids were too busy being challenged to get in trouble. There's an idea to translate into the Christian experience, that is – commercial Christianity can never give one genuine God-respect, personal dignity and self-respect. And without that, how can one respect others?

Last week I even found myself (of all things) teaching men to sing bass. Let me tell you, they were a humble lot – willing to hang in. It was immensely rewarding to see them so thrilled about their progress. Again, there is a spiritual parallel.

I am not over preoccupied about church music one way or the other.

Perhaps this is because I see it as an expression of worship rather then the heart of worship.

Perhaps humble silence, for abasement and adoration, might just be the most apt musical and artistic expression of the departure of glory from our churches.

Wouldn't it be amazing if this happened - not only pubically in church, but also privately.

Dare we rest our ears from constant sound, and listen to the silence............ and the still voice of God.

Diane

Perhaps humble silence, for abasement and adoration, might just be the most apt musical and artistic expression of the departure of glory from our churches.

Wouldn't it be amazing if this happened - not only pubically in church, but also privately.

Dare we rest our ears from constant sound, and listen to the silence............ and the still voice of God.

Diane