Assemblies of God Pastor on "Holy" Laughter

AS some of you who visit this forum know, I have been personally researching the Brownsville and Toronto "revivals" to see if they were indeed legitimate.My last thread on this matter, found HERE, was intended to be a search for the simple truth, but many became frustrated at the lack of understanding of each other's position. It seemed to divide into two main camps:1. Those who think Brownsville was legitimate (they usually were people that went there at some point) but that it might have strayed and the revival fire was snuffed out.2. Those who think the whole Brownsville thing was a mockery of what revival really is and that it wasn't Scripturally sound.While the Toronto "blessing" or "revival" was also mentioned, it was amazing how many supporters of Brownsville were quick to disconnect Toronto with Brownsville despite the similarities in both places and some of the people connected with both (although Brownsville was with Assemblies of God and Toronto was with the Vineyard.)Anyway, I ran aross an excellent article that would do some good to everyone who participated or read my previous thread on this subject. Here's the article, written by an Assemblies of God pastor (and general secretary for them):http://godnet.org/wood.htm-Chris

There are some who would argue that I wasnt saved if I had a wrong view of who God is... and I am open to that suggestion. All I know is that I was blind, but now I see. As I matured in the Lord my sight became better and better.That part of your post makes me want to read John 9 again - one of my favorite parts of Scripture. :-) -Chris

why do people on this site continue to research brownsville & toronto so much? If y'all are really so concerned with the authenticity of revivals, why not study Azusa or Korea or some of the current ones in Central & South America (Brazil, Argentina that were all very controversial as well, but are not drawing the same attention that Toronto & Brownsville are to SermonIndexers? It seems as though every other time I visit this site there are 3-5 threads on brownsville or toronto and it's so annoying, honestly. I mean, whether they were 100% real & authentic or not, is that thought really worth this much opinionated discussion? I would be perfectly fine with neither of them being mentioned on SermonIndex.net ever again...It would have no effect in any form or fashion on my walk with Jesus. **Sometimes this is why I think God cannot visit us supernaturally more often because we get so anxious over the thought that are puny minds can't figure it all out! Why can't we seem to be fine with the mystery of the gospel?! Here's the truth: that there is a God and you are not Him and neither am I...If we simply embraced the mystery-miracle working power of God rather than picking apart every single detail of a move of God with our carnal brains that aren't satisfied with "not having all the answers," we would probably witness the supernatural contemporary work of the Holy Spirit a lot more. A LOT MORE!My feeling is that it's very pharisaical to judge every little thing and probably if Jesus came and spent a day with us and walked with us everywhere we went, we wouldn't be able to handle it! Come on people, the BIBLE talks about the mystery of the gospel and the mystery of godliness! God is supernatural, everything He does is miraculous, even His voice is miraculous and we get all worried and concerned when He does something we don't comprehend or understand. Father, help us to see as You do, help us to embrace your power, your truth.

JesusIsLife wrote:why do people on this site continue to research brownsville & toronto so much? Because I've heard so many conflicting stories about it. I just wanted to know the truth. Sorry - it's relatively new to me.-Chris

Hi JesusisLife...!why do people on this site continue to research brownsville & toronto so much? Leonard Ravenhill once stated, "The only thing that men learn from history is that men seldom learn from history." Sometimes, we must understand both the mistakes and blessings of the past in order to be willing to reject or accept the same in the here and now.But I agree with the essence of what you're saying. From what I have read, I seriously doubt much of what happened in the "Toronto Blessing." However, it is not out of hand to say that the "Brownsville Revival" could have been exaggerated as well. "Spiritual exaggerations" happen every day in even the most well-meaning of churches. Someone wants God to move so badly that they put on a sort of "rain dance." But like the "rain dances" of the early indigenous Americans -- those dances never brought about rain. It is my opinion that God works within the heart of each believer as an individual. Thus, an individual revival is necessary before a collective revival can occur. I feel that a collective revival occurs after those that are empty see the hearts of those that are filled with the new life that comes from knowing Christ intimately. The hungry then desire the same more than anything! As this spiritual hunger spreads in a prayer soaked land -- lives, and even the fabric of society itself is changed.The biggest problem with such "revivals" like Toronto and Pensacola (or Missouri, etc...) is that most of the people that travel to those locations are those who are already born again. A believer does not have to travel across the country or state (or even the city) to meet with God. The believer only needs to go to his "prayer closet" -- where he/she shuts away this world -- in order to meet with God in the same manner as Moses or Paul. Yet each year, these "revival pilgrimages" will continue as believers search for a new "revival promised land." In my opinion, it is a soulish "chasing after the wind." Instead, why can't we make frequent pilgrimages to our "prayer closet" in order to meet with God and seek His face? In my opinion, that is both the cause -- and effect -- of a true revival.Father, help us to see as You do, help us to embrace your power, your truth.Amen! :-)

JesusisLife's Come on people, the BIBLE talks about the mystery of the gospel and the mystery of godliness! God is supernatural, everything He does is miraculous, even His voice is miraculous and we get all worried and concerned when He does something we don't comprehend or understand.I think you may be misunderstanding the word 'mystery' as it is used in scripture. It has nothing to do with things 'mysterious' or 'wierd' but implies something which has been 'hidden'.musterion: primarily that which is known to the mustes, "the initiated" (from mueo, "to initiate into the mysteries;" cp. Php_4:12, mueomai, "I have learned the secret," RV). In the NT it denotes, not the mysterious (as with the Eng. word), but that which, being outside the range of unassisted natural apprehension, can be made known only by Divine revelation, and is made known in a manner and at a time appointed by God, and to those only who are illumined by His Spirit. In the ordinary sense a "mystery" implies knowledge withheld; its Scriptual significance is truth revealed. Hence the terms especially associated with the subject are "made known," "manifested," "revealed," "preached," "understand," "dispensation." The definition given above may be best illustrated by the following passage: "the mystery which hath been hid from all ages and generations: but now hath it been manifested to His saints" (Col_1:26, RV).This quotation is from Vine's Expository Dictionary and is the entry under the word 'mystery'. Enter the word 'mystery' in the 'English' window to read more.The root word 'muO' which means a 'closed mouth'. It is the word from which we derive mime, mute and even 'keeping mum'. It is certainly not a word which would be used to describe some of the 'noisy' phenomena of the Toronto Blessing. :-)

God Bless Chris, My name is David, and I understand what and why your asking about the revivals Toronto and Brownsville. Many people have trouble with these revivals because they see the results from the people that attend them. Now, I am not saying everyone is not changed at these revivals or people aren't saved, but alot of the people who have gone to these revivals, when the revival has worn off their back to thir old selves. And people see this, and that's where they get their attitudes, about these kind of revivals. David Wilkerson said that in Toronto there was some strange happenings, but I wasn't there so I don't know. I believe this that if revival comes peoples lives will change for good, they'll be exhorted and strengthen, they'll be saved and transformed, or it was all just emotional. If it doesn't last it was all just emotional. When Jesus comes somethings gotta change. By the way they are having Azusa street 2006 in April, and our benevolence ministry has been asked to attend, and probably feed and minister to, around 40,000 people. It may be like Toronto or Brownsville, I pray that it will be life changing for everyone who attend, and those who just hear about it. By the way its taking place at the Rose Bowl in California. God Bless you richly in Jesus Christ.Your brother in Christ David!

The biggest problem with such "revivals" like Toronto and Pensacola (or Missouri, etc...) is that most of the people that travel to those locations are those who are already born again. A believer does not have to travel across the country or state (or even the city) to meet with God. The believer only needs to go to his "prayer closet" - where he/she shuts away this world - in order to meet with God in the same manner as Moses or Paul. Yet each year, these "revival pilgrimages" will continue as believers search for a new "revival promised land." In my opinion, it is a soulish "chasing after the wind." Instead, why can't we make frequent pilgrimages to our "prayer closet" in order to meet with God and seek His face? In my opinion, that is both the cause - and effect - of a true revival.I totally agree!A few scriptures from this article stand out to me:"For they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true" (Acts 17:11)"Test everything. Hold on to the good " (I Thess. 5:21)"Weigh carefully what is said " (I Cor. 14:29)"The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets. For God is not a God of disorder, but of peace" (1 Cor. 14:32,33)Brownsville is still an Assemblies church, but sometimes I wonder why, when the official position of the Assemblies of God is that this stuff is not right. I have heard several statements from different Assemblies of God pastors speaking out against these types of manifestations.People have been escorted out of my church for wild and erratic behavior, because we believe God is a God a order and peace.Although I don't agree 100% with everything the Assemblies teaches as doctrine, I still go there because it's the closest thing to what I believe.

an interesting article. it seems there are excesses on both sides, laughing hysterically and then examining the phenomena with the word of God but not being led by the Spirit of God rather examining such with a carnal mind. let us seek the Lord earnestly about these things.i'd like to ask this though, we are made in the Lord's image so do we feel things like joy (and respond sometimes by laughing), pain (and respond sometimes by weeping) because HE does too? that's what i think, anyone else have any thoughts?

If y'all are really so concerned with the authenticity of revivals, why not study Azusa or Korea or some of the current ones in Central & South America (Brazil, ArgentinaI'd sure like to know more about these revivals. Can someone direct me to the information, a link perhaps, or start a new thread on this? Diane

I like to error on the side of caution most of the time, and also stray from casting judgements, at least publically, on matters such as this holy laughter revival. I have seen good intentioned men and women use very poor judgement in thier ministration of the gifts of God, and that is unfortunate. On a personal note, I appreciate George Woods and his life as well as his ministry. I had occassion to hear him and talk to him and his wife at an Ohio camp meeting he was ministering at some years ago. He's the real deal. His article and advice are reliable and sound, this brother knows God. So much of what I see and hear I just have to learn to take by faith and remain in prayer about. We are in the times when a great exercise of caution should always be applied. That's why I so enjoy reading some of the brothers comments in this site who give word diffinitions and seem to know how to ask the right questions. God Bless you all. Bro. daryl

Brownsville is still an Assemblies church, but sometimes I wonder why, when the official position of the Assemblies of God is that this stuff is not right. I have heard several statements from different Assemblies of God pastors speaking out against these types of manifestations.Becasue the A/G is a congregational movement with congregational govenment. The main office can make all the statements they want but ultimately most congregations make thier own decisions. Brownsville is no exception. In fact as a fully autonomous church they would care even less about the 'Blue Vatican' in Missouri than most. The AoG is a cooperative fellowship of churches that holds the reigns very loosely on the churches themselves. The tend to be tighter in who gets to be a pastor and how they minister but if your BIG -- they leave you alone. :-(The article was a good one -- God Bless George Wood for being a classical Pentecostal -- Word first. I have always enjoyed hearing him speak as well as listen to what he writes. People have been escorted out of my church for wild and erratic behavior, because we believe God is a God a order and peace. This is the great divided in the AoG church right now -- 1 Corinthians 14:40. People that justify this 'wild stuff' want to redefine the meaning of the word 'order' here to justify a lot of things. But why would God reveal himself in anything but terms we understand? )Order mean order. 'Order' is not a bad thing even in spiritual gifts and the word order is as we would define it.Blessings.

I feel that if might be good to give you a little background about myself before I say just a few things about this attempt to understand what seems to me to be the real question “Is this God or not”. I got saved in 1969 and then Spirit Baptized about 2 weeks later at a lake just me and Jesus. I was aware that there was such a thing as “the baptism in the Holy Spirit” but no one had ever prayed for me concerning this. It was just this simple, I was praying at sun up overlooking the lake and the Lord said, Ken you can be filled in the Holy Spirit if you would like. I said yes Lord and He baptized me. I spoke in another language for 1-2 hrs. that was not just a few little words but a extensive language. In 1970 I got married, and we moved to Texas to attend a bible college. The school was neo Pentecostal in its teaching and practiced I graduated the 4 year program and then taught in the school, became a board member of the school, started a business, was a elder of a church and so forth from 1970-1980. In 1980 I sold my business and moved to Fort Lauderdale Fl. to go into the ministry and pastured a local church for 7 years. Well that’s enough background for me to say what I wanted to say.From 1969-2006 I have been in three meetings that the Holy Spirit visited the assembly with uncontrolled laughter. In these three meetings there was no doubt that This Was A Visitation From Above the first meeting was while I was in bible college and the others in the 1990. None of them were associated with any revival movement or prolonged phenomenon. They were simply A meeting that God in his wisdom visited us in this unique way its fruits was like my initial experience when I received the baptism of the Holy Spirit I felt like I was immersed in his presents and a sense of wonderful cleansing was a after glow for days. If there would have been several meetings in this same vane of experience most, if not all of the mature believers would have had serious questions. We would have questioned if our continuing in this vain of seeking after God would or could produce the fruit of bringing true maturity in the body? God wants us to grow up and be mature more that he wants to giggle our way through life. We should never limit God but on the other hand God’s true desire is raise us up in the unity of the faith and the knowledge of the son of God to a perfect mature man to the measure and stature of fullness of Christ. Yes God wants us to be Blessed as we Grow Up to be Like Him.FellowShip

you ask is this God or not,did Jesus break in to un controlled laughter on the sermon on the mountain.I would say not.you use the word (uncontrolled laughter) having no order of free will.a church with no order!Is like a river without a bank! you do the math

Ha Greenquality;Perhaps using the word (uncontrollable) offends you and perhaps I should have chosen a different work that would have prevented you from communicating from a apparent offended or disturbed manor. I am quite sure I could have controlled myself during those 3 meeting within a period of 37 years. I could have walked out of them and condemned them and people I had been relation to for years. I could have refused to yield to God’s Spirit as he was moving and become a judge in stead of a son. I think you have missed my heart as I attempted to share from my life experience. I am a believer in walking in a balanced Christian life. But being balanced doesn’t mean to be unwilling to follow God’s Spirit. Yes the Spirit and the Word agree and yes we need to look into the word to see if what we are doing emulates the word. But fundamentally the bible was written by people that were First moved by the Holy Spirit and then wrote down that which the Spirit moved on them to say or do. “All scripture is given by inspiration of God” , “Holy men of God spoke as the Spirit gave them utterance”. If you don’t give God enough room to Be God than you would have to through out all the prophetical books and all references of Revelations and so forth. I would also say in passing that like salvation and like the baptism of the H.S. after you have experienced it There Is No Doubt about the issue is this God or Not. And I will say again “if this type of experience had continued over and over again, meeting after meeting, month after month, like it did in Brownsville I would have had a major problem with my experience”.FellowShip