Magic Tricks and the Christian

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Sentry Jan 25, 2006

I need some opinions and I'm sure I can get a few here. ;-) Back in my younger years, (I'm married now with two grown children), I was really into Magic.Now, when I say Magic, I mean...card tricks, slight of hand with coins, balls, etc.I even did some "magic shows" for the Children's church service, of course it had a biblical theme.Keep in mind, this was over 20 years ago.Now...I'm curious...because the opportunity has came up to do some Children's ministry...outdoor stuff, reaching out to the neiborhood and surrounding areas, and I thought, perhaps I could throw in a trick or two.It's been a long time, but I used to be very good at it...but I don't want to do something that would be considered sinful or evil.I guess my question is this:What is your opinion on Magic "tricks" and the modern day Church?I know there are Children's Ministries that utilize this sort of thing.Thank you so much for any responses.God Bless...Mark

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allhavsinned Jan 25, 2006

hmm, I guess I would avoid it if I could, pray about it of course, and I think there will be those who say it is harmless or even good. My advice, if it could remotely lead the kids the wrong way (say by getting into Harry potter or other popular magic) then give it a miss.If your message is so good that they will forget the magic tricks then you don't need them, if your message needs the tricks to get someone to listen, get a new message.A general rule of thumb: if it may be wrong, don't do it, it's better to go to heaven and find out you could have done it than to go to hell and realise you shouldn't have done it. (this applies to all sorts of dilema's).Just my 2 centsSte

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Compton Jan 25, 2006

Mark,For me "magic" of the sort you described could hardly be mistaken for supernaturalism or spiritualism.I knew a guy once who was a whiz with card tricks. He really had an entertaining routine. Even though I was baffled how he was doing the things he was doing I never once thought he was dabbling in supernaturalism. In fact, if anything it shows how easy our eyes are decieved...it's kind of demystifying to know that it's all just skillful slight of hand. (And perhaps some slightly altered deck of cards...)Although "magic" is a word that can stir up dark images of sorcery, the fellow I mentioned regarded the word magic to mean "amazement" or "wonder." He refused to tell me how he did his trcks because it would kill the "magic" he would say. So my 2 cents is this...if guessing which card a child picked from a shuffled deck will open the door for you to share the gospel then I think...why not? You can always make sure the kids know they are just tricks...and not exhibits of some "power." If anything...you are demonstrating how easy it is to fall for illusions in this world...MC

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InTheLight Jan 26, 2006

I have worked in Sunday School with a gentleman who uses card tricks and sleight of hand and they are very effective in getting large groups of young kids settled down and focused to start things off. Then the Bible teaching begins with a group that is focused in on the teacher. Just so none of the kids think he has some kind of mystical "power" he always shows the kids how the trick works at the end of the class. He is a godly man and one of the best Sunday School teachers I've met.In Christ,Ron

sermonindex Jan 26, 2006

I am not saying that they are good or bad, but I do know that we don't need them; not in our evangelism or in our teaching or in anything.

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jimp Jan 26, 2006

hi, it seems that some would reject the confusing situation on the feast of pentecost when the Holy Spirit caused such attention to those in the upper room that thousands were attracted, are they drunk? are not all of these gala lions yet they are speaking in all these languages . these men are not drunk as you suppose... and that day thousands were added to the church . hw dould they have gotten saved without going through our process? be all things to all men so that you can win some. jimp

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coops Jan 26, 2006

That sort of thing is just an optical illusion. Don't call it "magic" because it's not at all. I can do a few tricks, and it can draw an instant crowd. It's also great to prove points eg. "You know the handkerchief still exists, even if it seems invisible, it's the same with God" etc etc...No, we don't NEED anything to evngelize, but following those lines we could throw out all our tracts, rip up ray comfort's flip chart, and condemn people for employing humour! Hehe, OK maybe a bit extreeme, but I hope u get what i'm trying to say...As long as it doesn't distract from the gospel, but helps get people's attention and prove a point, then go for it! (If you waved a wand and said spooky stuff and pretended to practice witchcraft then yeah that's not gonna help)Compton is right: what's wrong with guessing the right cards, making the hankie dissapear and pulling coins out of people's ears?! It's a totally different thing. if it may be wrong, don't do it, it's better to go to heaven and find out you could have done it than to go to hell and realise you shouldn't have done it. 1. It's not wrong. Just because "magic" has two similar meanings. The magic the bible condemns is witchcraft.2. You won't go to hell for doing a couple of card tricks to draw a crowd to get them saved. In fact that applies to al sorts of dilemas. Once ur saved thats it - unless you REJECT God then there is no doubt that you are fine (no matter your theology). It's better to get to heaven and realise there was something you didn't need to do, than to get there and realise that your ministry could be so much more effective if you weren't bound by legalism.It's just a couple of card tricks, used to preach the gospel!

sermonindex Jan 26, 2006

I need some opinions and I'm sure I can get a few here. How right you are! That made me :-)I echo what Lazarus had to say. I grew up on the mission field, and it doesn't matter what the culture of those to whom you are preaching, the POWER is in the WORD OF TRUTH - the more pure and the less compromised by anything - the better. People REMEMBER EVERY THING and they think that 'missionaries' are SHOWING them HOW to BE a CHRISTIAN - and they'll include card tricks, rope tricks, TRICKS WITH MONEY :-o in that as well. People are impressionable. CHILDREN are impressionable.[Please, all these capital letters are just to save me time. I'm not shouting.} There are a couple of verses that came to mind, too, to back up my sense that the gospel is best declared, proclaimed, and demonstrated by means other than worldly means.Psalms 68:11The Lord gave the word: great was the company of those that published it. {company: Heb. army} People need a certain amount of individual attention - that's why there is a need for an army of preachers.In Handel's Messiah, he changes 'those that published it' to 'preachers'.Actually, there are several verses, which I will quote all, to show this was a pattern of the reasoning of Jesus.Matthew 11:20 Then began he to upbraid the cities wherein most of his mighty works were done, because they repented not: Matthew 11:21 Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. Matthew 11:23 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. Matthew 13:54 And when he was come into his own country, he taught them in their synagogue, insomuch that they were astonished, and said, Whence hath this man this wisdom, and these mighty works? Matthew 13:58 And he did not many mighty works there because of their unbelief.Let's just pause and think about that last one. BECAUSE of their unbelief, He did not many mighty works there.The converse of this is because of their BELIEF, He had been able to mighty works in other places. STILL, He was looking for wholesale repentance, was He not? (Btw, I don't normally speak about repentance... Like faith (that is, believing what God has said TO YOU), I feel it is a very personal thing and must be real.) Matthew 14:2 And said unto his servants, This is John the Baptist; he is risen from the dead; and therefore mighty works do shew forth themselves in him. Mark 6:2 And when the sabbath day was come, he began to teach in the synagogue: and many hearing [him] were astonished, saying, From whence hath this man these things? and what wisdom is this which is given unto him, that even such mighty works are wrought by his hands? Now, these kind of mighty works wrought by your hands are what I'd be looking for if I was a kid. I'm serious.... 8-)

sermonindex Jan 26, 2006

I don't want to come off as being legalistic about this (becuz I don't see anything wrong with slight of hand tricks), however I am growing tired of the church seeing the need to entertain in order to win people for Christ. Even entertaining children with the goal of reaching them for Christ is a relatively new concept.On the other hand, this could just be my knee-jerk reaction to the entertaining of adults in church that is so wide-spread now. Perhaps for young children (under 6 years old) this would be just fine. But my personal opinion is that once a child reaches 6 or 7 yrs old they need deperately to be taught the Word. It needs to happen at home. They need to be listening to the preaching at church as well... not watching Veggie Tales in Children's Church. Nothing wrong with Veggie Tales, but when the Word is being preached, children need to be under the preaching with their parents.As for card tricks... nothing wrong with it. I like to play poker (with no money, just chips).Krispy

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Sentry Jan 26, 2006

Hmmm,well, like I thought, lot's of different opinions :-) My intentions are pure and simple.Get some neighborhood kids attention.This is for an outdoor event.THEN...the gospel message can be presented.I realize it can be presented without the aid of disapearing hankerchiefs or whatever, but just wanted to get some input.We'll have puppets and such...free food and more.Our main goal is showing them the LOVE of the Lord.Anyway, thanks for all of your responses.

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ccchhhrrriiisss Jan 27, 2006

Hi KrispyKrittr...!They need to be listening to the preaching at church as well... not watching Veggie Tales in Children's Church. Nothing wrong with Veggie Tales, but when the Word is being preached, children need to be under the preaching with their parents.This reminds me of something: While eating lunch after a Sunday meeting, I noticed a little boy sitting in a table across from me. This kid couldn't have been any more than 6 or 7 years old. The little boy was gazing intently into an open Bible, obviously searching for something. I noticed that his Bible was opened toward the back, probably in the concordance. Eventually, his father asked him, "Son, you really need to eat your lunch. But what are you searching for?" His son replied, "I'm just looking for a story with Larry!" Larry the Cucumber is a character in the VeggieTale animated DVD series. While it is quite humorous, it is also very telling of this day and age. The children and youth of today are being "entertained" into many of our Church doors. The problem is that their faith is often seems based upon ulterior motivation, rather than a true and heartfelt meeting with Christ. Yet, many pastors, parents and Church goers are pleased that their children are happy to be involved with Church activities. I have seen alot of teens "come and go" in the local Church. Yes, some come because they desired to know and fellowship with Christ above all else. Unfortunately, there seems to be many that come for other reasons. I know a few teens that come only to participate in the music. They openly admit that they wouldn't come to a church if they couldn't play in one of the Church bands. Some go to Church because their parents force them. Their parents and pastors feel guilty that their children are so bored at Church, so they attempt to create entertaining methods of teaching the Bible. Should we rejoice at this? Should we change the way that the Gospel is preached in order to seem acceptable to today's youth?One parent of a troubled Church-going teen discussed her problem with her son. She told me, "Well, at least he is going to Church with me. There are alot of kids going to Hell out of the Church -- in the real world." I smiled and told her, "This is like someone saying, 'At least my child is drowning in our home's swimming pool instead of the ocean!'" I explained that she needed to sit down with her son and explain that he desperately needs a relationship with Christ. I apologize for rambling. But this problem seems so common today. I know so many Church-going youth that will privately admit that they do not know Christ. Some even say that they don't even want a relationship with God because they know what it will "cost" them. Yet these youth are very involved in Church activities -- and even ministry. And the pastor sometimes even exhorts them from the pulpit! Yes, it brings smiles to the faces of the parents and the kids. But will it save their souls from the Day of Reckoning?"Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" - Matthew 7:21-23 (NIV) :-( BTW...On a side note, I helped start a bus ministry at a church that I attended. Eventually, it grew to about 450 kids per week. With our limited amount of help, it was a miracle that we survived! At first, we tried alot of different things to reach the kids. But I noticed that alot of it was reaching their minds -- but not their hearts. Eventually, we began to rely on alot of object lessons -- sort of modern day parables. Often, these were demonstrated with visible objects. But I would definitely confront them with the truth of the Word of God. I even had some very understood rules of conduct -- letting the children know that it was a privilege for them to be there. I told them how people in some countries are killed for their faith. The worship consisted of real worship and praise, and not kiddie-fun songs. I would often explain to the children that they could worship any way they desired -- as long as it was done in spirit and in truth. There were even some Church members that criticized me for being so "hard" on the kids. But I really wanted to reach them the way that I thought I would have been reached at that age. I always strove for the message to be real and relevant to their lives -- and demonstrate how Jesus can be close to them regardless of what they are going through. We had a wonderful experience. I often meet a child that came to the Lord through the bus ministry -- and is still serving God. It always brings a smile to my face, and I remind them that if I don't see them again on Earth, I'll see them in eternity. :-)

M

myfirstLove Jan 27, 2006

i'm not saying that tricks are bad or good, but that we must be careful that we are not putting our trust in the things of this world to win the lost, but know it is only thru God we are able to win the lost. we must not only look to see if this is harming others, but is it also harming our relationship and dependence on God?God is a jelouse God. He wants our dependence to be on Him, to see that we truly do believe in all that He says.and what does He say? that if we abide in Him, He and the Father will make there home in us (john 15.apart from Me you can do NOTHING (john 15)that if we would believe we would see greater things....God desire for us to put our trust only in Him. He allowed paul to be persecuted so he would not trust in himself, but God alone! (2cor. 1:9)many christians boast how they believe in God, but by our speech and action it shows how faithless we are. the church depends more on the goods of this world and man's ways to win the lost then God. paul said he desire to know NOTHING, but Jesus Christ and Him crucified. when are christians going to have that desire and nothing more. to know Christ is enough. we MUST BELIEVE that His word is LIVING and POWERFUL AND SHARPER than any two edged sword, PIERCING even to the DIVISION OF SOUL and SPIRIT AND OF JOINTS AND MARROW and is a DISCERNER of the THOUGHTS and INTENTS of the heart. when we preach in faith His word is either piercing the heart in conviction or reviving them to life. just like the fragrance of Christ that is on a holy person. that fragrance in us is bringing about death or life to those around us (2 cor. 2:15). its not us! its not entertainment! its ONLY HIM! we MUST have FAITH in order for His power to work in our lives.Jesus says if we lift Him up He will draw all men to Him.IT IS HIM ! IT IS HIM! we can do NOTHING. we MUST put our WHOLE TRUST in Him and nothing else. He is the one who breaks and revives. He is the one who draws and divides. Jesus use nothing to draw a crowd, but His dependence was on the Father. He even rebuked the crowd when He knew that they were only coming because they were filled with food.how did all the revivals start out? with men DESPERATE for JESUS. praying hard and preaching with faith. we are able to preach with faith and confidence in Him when all we deisre is to know Jesus Christ and HIm crucified. if you want to see souls won you must count the cost and suffer with Him and thru your death will many come alive. you want souls? then die that God may have ALL the glory. we want to say it is God who drew them all! no entertainment! no food! it was ALL Him that He may truly receive all the glory. all the glory!call me a legalist, but i'm not adding to His word. show me in the word where Christ use things to draw a crowd. i can show you many scripture that show that Jesus and paul depended only on God to win the lost, no one else and nothing else.oh brethren, even with kids, we must show all seriousness with Christ that they will grow up being all seriouse and devout with Him. did Christ use humor? was he humorous? did he try to make people laugh before presenting the gospel? telling people that they are going to hell if they do not make peace with God is nothing to take lightly. this is a seriose matter. if we have an attitude that is humorous that will show people that the gospel is really not that seriose and that we really do not believe what we are preaching. do you understand what i mean? we must also check our hearts too. why do we like to use humor? so we won't be hated? persucuted? not really about them feeling comfortable but really more about us feeling more comfortable???let us truly examine all that we do and bring it to the light of God's word.