Ron Bailey Instant Sanctification

I wanted to bring this back up as I have been greatly blessed by Ron's teachings from the Rora 2003 series as well as the others and especially the Truth That Is In Jesus. My itunes counter has me having listened to them an average of about 10 times each. Some are more like 20+. Who knows, but I need to listen to them many more times. I have integrated a lot of his teachings into my own version of these things- so please don't blame him for what I am about to say. ;-)When I first heard "Instant Sanctification" in the Rora series I almost went over the edge. I come from a strict holiness background that is coupled with Finney's Oberlin type soteriology (salvation theology). What that means is, "one wrong move and you are on the same footing with God as a sinner." This is also known as salvation via sanctification. I greatly resented the strictness of the truly legalistic version of holiness. Don't salt your food, no sweets, co coffee, and after all, 'flowers cumbereth the ground"- so lets dig them up and make better use of the ground with a vegetable garden. I could go on and on with this, but its not necessary. Jesse asks some truly wonderful questions:Is repentance neccesary for salvation, and if so how much repentance?Repentance is a change of mind that results in a change of direction. Only God can answer this question as I believe with Finney that God will point to His main controversy with the unrepentant sinner and expect them to respond in turning from it. In this I see the Holy Spirit taking on the role of our Lord in the earth- similar to when He spoke to the rich young ruler. Almost as if we could hear His voice saying, "If thou shalt be perfect go and sell what thou hast (or what ever He is pointing at to make right) and thou shalt have treasure in Heaven." Now, some would say, "Thats works!" I would respond that it is (and I am borrowing Ron's terms here) "response to revelation." God told the Leper to 'dip 7 times' and to do so was response to revelation or what we can simply call "Faith". When God speaks we must respond and when we do - it is faith. In this I see repentance and faith as inseperable. We turn from something to Christ in response to the revelation we have when under conviction and it is the first real step of 'faith'. If we stiffen our necks- we go away sorrowful in unbelief. It is not enough to believe and tremble as many often do under the heavy hand of Holy Spirit conviction- the devils do that (tremble, etc). We have to respond rightly in obedience. How much sin does it take to be seperated from God? Was Adam seperated from God over one sin, and we can have a relationship with God and have many or any sins in our lives?Again, I think that a good understanding of justification by faith has to be coupled with any answer to this question. However, any controversy with God has to be resolved if we are going to maintain a relationship. When I say controversy I am not referring to something someone told you or what you may have heard preached; I am referring specifically to God putting His Finger on something and demanding that we turn from that thing. If we turn not, the hand of chastisement will fall and it will come out of love from a Father to a son. If we never turn back then what? Thats the question in my mind. What happens when we cease to respond rightly to revelation. It almost inevitably has to mean we cease to walk in faith. Especially if we understand that we are taking millions of steps of faith in our walk of faith. What happens when we stop walking by faith? What happens when we turn aside completely from the revelation that God has applied to our heart of His Will? Very very dangerous.

It is probably on this site. Just look in the B's. Ron has several articles and sermons on "the index."

This type of repentance must continue until the dept is paid, then you are free to serve God, if not we continue to be a servent to the lender until is paid even the last farthing. In this case I know a whole lot of people who shouldn't be serving God ;-) ...I remember a particularly helpful conversation with Ron and Jeff on this subject...one thing that made a difference to me was clarifying the difference between a complete yielding to God versus complete sinless perfection. I had brought up a familiar analogy by Amy Carmichael, wherein she compared santification to the process of purifying gold through fire. This is a subject that has been hard for me to fully understand. As I remember, Ron challenged me to consider santification as a position of whole surrender/trust/commitment, and to imagine it as a yes or no question...as opposed to a gradual yes. A high school basketball player may not be as perfect in the ways of basketball as a professional in the NBA, but nevertheless, the high school player can be totally devoted to the game, his team, and his coach. Likewise, a child one year in the Lord may indeed be sanctified in their heart, while even the eldest holiness preacher may be secretly a million miles off the mark. (I think this dovetails with Robert's comments regarding "response to revelation.")Forgive me Ron for sanding off the finer points but I was hoping to at least introduce this point into the conversation.MC

Ron, I listened to your "convention" messages last night, and I heard you say that you believe in Instant Sanctification.Hi Loveslave, it depends on what you mean by sanctification, Hebrews 10:9-10 says:Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second. By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.This says we have been sanctified (perfect tense i.e. The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.) once for all, this does not happen over a period of time.

loveslave's Is this not progressive sanctification where He works His righteousness into our lives? If you listen to some of those messages you will find that I tend to be a little pedantic (a little pedantic!!!!) in my use of words. I sometimes jokingly say that an evangelist can get away with anything but a teacher has to watch his words. (James 3:1 tells us that our judgement is going to be more strict than that of others). I am particulary 'fussy' about Bible words. There is sometimes a tendency to say 'when I say 'sanctification' I mean...'; this is what I call humpty dumpty-ism after Lewis Caroll's famous character who asserted that when he used a word it 'means what I want it to mean and no more'. If we 'mis-use' Bible words we undermine the scriptural revelation and I could give you many examples of continuing distress in the lives of the saints simply because they are using the wrong words. The words we use have a continual effect upon the way we 'think' and consequently 'act'.Bible words seldom have definitions but they have histories and part of the Bible's purpose is to show us how 'God uses the word'. For this reason not even a Bible dictionary or exhaustive knowledge of classical Greek is the best preparation for Bible study; the best preparation is Bible reading... slowly, slowly, slowly. :-) Here are the first to Bible references to the word 'sanctification';Gen. 2:3 (KJVS) And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. Ex. 13:2 (KJVS) Sanctify unto me all the firstborn, whatsoever openeth the womb among the children of Israel, both of man and of beast: it is mine. Now please see if your own 'definition' of sanctification will fit into these 'first lessons' on the topic of sanctification. (Perhaps you have heard of the 'first mention principle'?) I am not mocking you but trying to make a point when I say "did God separate the Sabbath day to his own unique ownership... progressively or instantly?" Did God separate the firstborn to himself ... progressively or instantly? In fact, 'progressive sanctification' is a contradiction in terms if we are usuing the word 'sanctification' carefully.Some years ago I sat down to a family meal in the home of friends in Ireland. A huge 'Shepherd's Pie' was on the table. We were awaiting the father of the family as he returned from work. The wife cut a section out of the pie and placed it on a plate saying "put that in the oven for your dad when he gets home". I said "do you know that what you have just done is a perfect illustration of the word 'sanctify'?"The Hebrew word 'qadash' literally means to 'cut out a portion for a specific use'. Places that were cut out were called "Sanctuary's" and you can find the prefix in place names such as "Kadeshbarnea". These were 'holy places' ie places set aside for holy purposes. Again, I am not mocking but being intentionally pedantic when I say that you cannot have 'percentage sanctification'. It is either set apart exclusively for God or it isn't. Here is a bible cameo illustrating the word 'sanctification':“Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation.”(Ex. 19:5-6, KJVS)From the moment that the nation submitted to this covenant they were "God's". Israel was 'cut out of the pie of the earth's nations and placed separately for God's exclusive use'. That is the essence of sanctification.I don't intend to be crude but think of a wedding in which the bride promises to 'keep myself only unto thee as long as we both shall live'. How would you react if she said 'prgressively'. There is an old 'colonial' joke about an ex-English colony in Africa who decided that they would change to driving on the 'right' side of the road. The nation was not known for its efficient operations and a rumour spread that they had decided to change the law so that vehicles now drove on the 'right' side of the road BUT the change they said would be made 'progressively and would not be mandatory!!' :-P Can you imagine?The word you are searching for is not sanctification but glorification. The first has to be 100% from the first moment, the latter will go on throughout life. “But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.” (2Cor. 3:18, NKJV) Sanctification is a crisis, glorification is a process. :-)

loveslave Ron, I listened to your "convention" messages last night, and I heard you say that you believe in Instant Sanctification. I have had a pm asking which one this was. I suspect it is somewhere in the series I did entitled 'having begun in the Spirit' in Rora House Conference, Devon, UK 2003.1. Regeneration: a change of direction2. Justification: a change of legal status3. Regeneration: a change in nature4. Adoption: a change in relationshipIt won't be called 'Instant Sanctification'.

The word you are searching for is not sanctification but glorification. The first has to be 100% from the first moment, the latter will go on throughout life.And if I might borrow one of your lines from Rora, it would be:"instant sanctification and progressive glorification." In this model the word 'glorification' is basically used how most Christians use the word 'sanctification.'

I came across this today from Oswald Chambers and thought readers of this thread might be interested in his 'title'. :-D February 8th.INSTANTANEOUS AND INSISTENT SANCTIFICATION\t"And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly." 1 Thessalonians 5:23-24When we pray to be sanctified, are we prepared to face the standard of these verses? We take the term sanctification much too lightly. Are we prepared for what sanctification will cost? It will cost an intense narrowing of all our interests on earth, and an immense broadening of all our interests in God. Sanctification means intense concentration on God's point of view. It means every power of body, soul and spirit chained and kept for God's purpose only. Are we prepared for God to do in us all that He separated us for? And then after His work is done in us, are we prepared to separate ourselves to God even as Jesus did? "For their sakes I sanctify Myself." The reason some of us have not entered into the experience of sanctification is that we have not realized the meaning of sanctification from God's standpoint. Sanctification means being made one with Jesus so that the disposition that ruled Him will rule us. Are we prepared for what that will cost? It will cost everything that is not of God in us.Are we prepared to be caught up into the swing of this prayer of the apostle Paul's? Are we prepared to say - "Lord, make me as holy as You can make a sinner saved by grace"? Jesus has prayed that we might be one with Him as He is one with the Father. The one and only characteristic of the Holy Ghost in a man is a strong family likeness to Jesus Christ, and freedom from everything that is unlike Him. Are we prepared to set ourselves apart for the Holy Spirit's ministrations in us?July 23rdThe Life Side. The mystery of sanctification is that the perfections of Jesus Christ are imparted to me, not gradually, but instantly when by faith I enter into the realization that Jesus Christ is made unto me sanctification. Sanctification does not mean anything less than the holiness of Jesus being made mine manifestly.

OswaldC.'s: [i] It will cost everything that is not of God in us.[/i]

As I aquaint myself with more of Ron's teachings I find that this statement of Oswals Chambers summs things up as well as I could hope.

This says we have been sanctified (perfect tense i.e. The perfect tense in Greek corresponds to the perfect tense in English, and describes an action which is viewed as having been completed in the past, once and for all, not needing to be repeated.) once for all, this does not happen over a period of time.

This is not quite what the perfect tense is. The perfect tense is an action that was completed in the past that continues to impact into the here and now.

Recall this thread, great to re-read through it again.

It will cost an intense narrowing of all our interests on earth, and an immense broadening of all our interests in God. Sanctification means intense concentration on God's point of view.

Some treasures here.