A Vision of the Glory of Christ the King

Hi GuysI can only imagine the glory of eternity in the presence of majestic glory. I will sing and dance before my Lord in the beauty and awe of his holiness. And of his majesty there will be no end, His majesty is eternity and that's what we shall dwell in. And its because of that, afflictions and trials of this world are light and momentary. Let not a complaining word fall from our lips, because we stand in the shadow of Calvary. And as we celebrate the birth of Jesus, when such a great light fell from heaven above and brought joy and hope to a world of darkness, a world of separation, may we always remember the hope that was set before Him. That hope is the hope that is set before us. He had stepped out of eternity and into time, yet he walked the path back to His Father, a path that would lead to the glory of Calvary, a path that would lead to these words "It is finished." And, as He ascended through the clouds and found Himself on a golden path that led towards the new Jerusalem, a path lined by the saints of heavens, thousands of them, no millions, all casting down their golden crowns before the conquering hero, His Father watched from the throneroom of heaven, found in the new Jerusalem. A single tear falls from the Fathers face as He sees His Son return victorious. As the Father stands, Jesus, riding His majestic white stallion with a two-edged sword at His side, sees His Father. He lifts His head up towards the light and the glory, His horse majestically walks the path avoiding the golden crowns that litter the path of gold, undisturbed by the cheers of the thousands, no the millions. Father, Father. Yes, Jesus my son, arise....... arise....... arise...... and take your place at my right hand. "Let all of heaven hear me," cries God, "This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased." I can only imagine the scene , yet I know it falls woefully short for it is limited by my imagination. Glory to God in the highest, and peace to His people on earth.......................................In the beauty of Holiness..........Frank

Hi brother Frank,I Love that song by 'Mercy Me' called "I can only imagine". Have you heard the words ? It's great.You know how I've loved your posts, and try to always find and read them and tell you how they bless me. But if I may say just one thing and then post something with it ... this post above is not Biblical and waters down the Deity of Christ. I noticed these "Father / Son conversations" in another thread also. I mean no harm in saying that at all Frank, as you have been a blessing here at SI.If I could just leave a post for you, that may seem long, I think it will explain better than I can right now. Thanks brother.Love. Annie~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~One God, in three Equal Persons, yet manifesting as One God in the Beginning and again at the End, but three, somewheres inbetween. Not Unitarian nor Oneness Doctrine, just the Amazing Triunity of The Godhead.The Logos did not become "the Son" until He was conceived in Mary. Quote:"This day have I begotten thee."What is the 'mystery' ?That our Creator God would die for us. One God called 'ĕlôhîym.Gen 1:1 In the beginning God{'ĕlôhîym/plural} created the heaven and the earth. Joh 1:1-3 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Isa 45:12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded. Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him {God created 'for' Himself - by Himself.}Mal 2:10 Have we not all one father? hath not one God created us? Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus ChristIsa 45:18 For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else. Who is this that came to Adam & Eve in the Garden ? ~~ Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God{'ĕlôhîym/plural} walking in the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of the LORD God{'ĕlôhîym/plural} amongst the trees of the garden.The Great "I AM".John 18:6 As soon then as he had said unto them, I am (he,-not in the Greek) they went backward, and fell to the ground.He called Himself "I AM". In the "present tense".Why did they all fall to the ground ? Not on their faces, but backwards.That moment could have given them a space of time to repent, but as Wesley said, "probably the priests among them might persuade themselves and their attendants, that this also was done by Beelzebub; and that it was through the providence of God, not the 'indulgence' of Jesus, that they received no farther damage."Joh 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am (he,-not in the Greek) ye shall die in your sins. John Wesley on Joh 8:24 - " If ye believe not that I AM - Here (as in Joh_8:58) our Lord claims the Divine name, I AM, Exo_3:14." Vincent's Word Studies ~ "I am (εγω ειμι) the words are rather the solemn expression of His absolute divine being, as in Joh_8:58 : “If ye believe not that I am.” See Deu_32:39; Isa_43:10; and compare Joh_8:28, Joh_8:58 of this chapter, and Joh_13:19." A.T. Roberson ~ "The phrase egō eimi occurs three times here (Joh_8:24, Joh_8:28, Joh_8:58) and also in Joh_13:19. Jesus seems to claim absolute divine being as in Joh_8:58." Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. Matthew Henry ~ “Verily, verily, I say unto you; I do not only say it in private to my own disciples, who will be sure to say as I say, but to you my enemies and persecutors; I say it to your faces, take it how you will: Before Abraham was, I am;” prin Abraam genesthaî egō eimi, Before Abraham was made or born, I am. The change of the word is observable, and bespeaks Abraham a creature, and himself the Creator; well therefore might he make himself greater than Abraham. Before Abraham he was, First, As God. I am, is the name of God (Exo_3:14); it denotes his self-existence; he does not say, I was, but I am, for he is the first and the last, immutably the same (Rev_1:8); thus he was not only before Abraham, but before all worlds, Joh_1:1; Pro_8:23. Secondly, As Mediator. He was the appointed Messiah, long before Abraham; the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev_13:8), the channel of conveyance of light, life, and love from God to man. This supposes his divine nature, that he is the same in himself from eternity (Heb_13:8)"R. A. Torrey ~ "I am: That our Lord by this expression asserted his divinity and eternal existence, as the great I AM, appears evident from the use of the present tense, instead of the past tense, from its being in answer to the Jews, who enquired whether he had seen Abraham, and from its being thus understood by the multitude, who were exasperated at it to such a degree that they took up stones to stone him. The ancient Jews not only believed that the Messiah was superior to and Lord of all the patriarchs, and even of angels, but that his celestial nature existed with God from whom it emanated, before the creation, and that the creation was effected by his ministry. Exo_3:14; Isa_43:13, Isa_44:6, Isa_44:8, Isa_46:9, Isa_48:12; Rev_1:8" Who's on the throne ?Eze 1:26 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. Eze 1:27 And I saw as the color of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. Eze 1:28 As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the LORD. And when I saw it, I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spoke. Rev 4:2 And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and one sat on the throne. Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and there was a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald. The Express Image of GodJoh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father? 2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Eph 1:9-10 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fullness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him Eph 4:10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: Col 1:17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist. Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the preeminence. Col 1:19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell; Col 1:20 And, having made peace through the blood of his cross, by him to reconcile all things unto himself; by him, I say, whether they be things in earth, or things in heaven. Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. Heb 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high; Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature2Co 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. Before the Incarnation, was there Anyone but One God ?Now onto Future tense .....Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be King over all the earth: in 'that day' shall there be one LORD, and his Name One. 1Co 15:28 And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all.~ God . . . all in all--as Christ is all in all (Col 3:11 ~ "...but Christ is all, and in all." Compare Zec. 14:9 above.) Adam Clarke ~ 1Co 15:28 - "When the administration of the kingdom of grace is finally closed; when there shall be no longer any state of probation, and consequently no longer need of a distinction between the kingdom of grace and the kingdom of glory; then the Son, as being man and Messiah, shall cease to exercise any distinct dominion and God be all in all: there remaining no longer any distinction in the persons of the glorious Trinity, as acting any distinct or separate parts in either the kingdom of grace, or the kingdom of glory, and so the one infinite essence shall appear undivided and eternal. And yet, as there appears to be a personality essentially in the infinite Godhead, that personality must exist eternally; but how this shall be we can neither tell nor know till that time comes in which we shall See Him as He Is. 1Jo_3:2." John Gill ~ "1Co 15:28.. that God may be all in all; for by God is not meant the Father personally, but God essentially considered, Father, Son, and Spirit, who are the one true and living God; to whom all the saints will have immediate access, in whose presence they will be, and with whom they shall have uninterrupted fellowship, without the use of such mediums as they now enjoy; all the three divine Persons will have equal power and government in and over all the saints; they will sit upon one and the same throne; there will be no more acting by a delegated power, or a derived authority: God will be all things to all his saints, immediately without the use of means; he will be that to their bodies as meat and clothes are, without the use of them; and all light, glory, and happiness to their souls, without the use of ordinances, or any means; he will then be all perfection and bliss, to all the elect, and in them all, which he now is not; some are dead in trespasses and sins, and under the power of Satan; the number of them in conversion is not yet completed; and, of those that are called many are in a state of imperfection, and have flesh as well as spirit in them; and of those who are fallen asleep in Christ, though their separate spirits are happy with him, yet their bodies lie in the grave, and under the power of corruption and death; but then all being called by grace, and all being raised, and glorified in soul and body, God will be all in all: this phrase expresses both the perfect government of God, Father, Son, and Spirit, over the saints to all eternity, and their perfect happiness in soul and body, the glory of all which will be ascribed to God; and it will be then seen that all that the Father has done, in the council and covenant of peace, were all to the glory of his grace; and that all that the Son has done in the salvation of his people, is all to the glory of the divine perfections: and that all that the Spirit of God has wrought in the saints, and all that they have done under his grace and influence, are all to the praise and glory of God, which will in the most perfect manner be given to the eternal Three in One."~ At the end of Revelation ... when all is brought back under One God ... from vs 3, do you see anything different ? ... Remembering, these 5 verses are one continuous sentence.Rev 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and 'his' servants shall serve 'him': Rev 22:4 And they shall see 'his' face; and 'his' name shall be in their foreheads{Rev 3:12}. Rev 22:5 And there shall be no night there; and they need no candle, neither light of the sun; for 'the Lord God' giveth them light: and they shall reign forever and ever. Rev 22:6 And he said unto me, These sayings are faithful and true: and 'the Lord God' of the holy prophets sent his angel to show unto 'his' servants the things which must shortly be done. Rev 22:7 Behold, I come quickly: blessed is he that keepeth the saying of the prophecy of this book. Etc.The Lamb = The Creator = God ~Rev 10:6 And swore by him that liveth forever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: Rev 10:7 But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets. ~ The Lamb comes out of the "midst" (or middle) of the throne, otherwhere's seen as from in "the bosom" of God. Still One God."The Mystery" .... to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God, The New Jersusalem, with GOD. (all that Adam 'had', plus lots more :) Rev 21:1 And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. Rev 21:2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be 'with them', and be their God. Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away. ~~NEXT THREE VERSES ARE IN 'RED'.Rev 21:5 And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he said unto me, Write: for these words are true and faithful. Rev 21:6 And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Dear Frank, I pray you see why I posted the above to you. You are such a great story teller, encourager and writer and many other blessings, but I read this other quote below when that thread was written and didn't want to "go there" just then .... but then after the second half of this post .... felt I should.This was the other thread that prompted me to post the above ...."Father," says the Lord Jesus, "they have taken what you knew they would take, it is time." So soon, so soon, can it be so soon. Yes Jesus, you are right, it is time for them to depart, my heart is heavy, so very heavy. They are my children, I created them with my own hands, I have breathed into them, a part of me is a part of them. Yes Father, but you told me your plan, that you were going to create the perfect creation, a creature that would willingly choose you, not because you created them that way, not because you programmed them like the animals, but because you would give them the ability to chose between what was right in your sight, and what was not. You put that tree there knowing they would not be able to resist, they have created sin, and now it must be overcome if they are to have the ability to genuinely choose. I know Jesus, I know, I just wanted these moments with them to last a little longer. We will save them Jesus, together with the Spirit we will save them, but the pain of this parting is hard to bear.I pray you can see why I posted above and not that I would ever come against you to hurt you in any way... it's just our view of Christ's Deity from the beginning and forever ... is important. He is fully The One God.The thread called "godhead" does a good job on this also.Keep posting brother... I really do enjoy and look for your threads.God Bless you richly !!Annie

Hi AnnieLet me first say how much I appreciate your love and your kindness and encouragment. I can tell form your posts that love is the basis of what you write and I certainly appreciate that. Just a little about my own theological stance. I was born and raised a Catholic, a doctrine that I am now utterly opposed to. I came to Christ fifteen years ago and have studied the Bible ever since. I also spent two years at Calvary Baptist Seminary, most of the Profs being allumni of Dallas Thelogical(an interesting experience for someone who would loosely describe himself as a conservative pentecosatal) So, I have studied theology itself as an art and a science, the hermaneutic if you like. That is why I have to reject the notion of what I wrote as being unbiblical. Is it in the Bible, noooo :) It was just a vision of mine that was wonderful and I put pen to paper. Yet here is what I would contend, it violates no principal of scripture nor is it unorthodox, so the charge that it is unbiblical is a little strong. I read the piece with interest, and as you can imagine, as a student of theology I have spent countless hours, months , perhaps years reading and studying the Trinity . I find myself completely orhthodox on the subject. This is a quote from the Adam Clarke piece that was included in what you sent who was actually required reading at the seminary I went to...................................................Adam Clarke ~ 1Co 15:28 - "When the administration of the kingdom of grace is finally closed; when there shall be no longer any state of probation, and consequently no longer need of a distinction between the kingdom of grace and the kingdom of glory; then the Son, as being man and Messiah, shall cease to exercise any distinct dominion and God be all in all: there remaining no longer any distinction in the persons of the glorious Trinity, as acting any distinct or separate parts in either the kingdom of grace, or the kingdom of glory, and so the one infinite essence shall appear undivided and eternal. And yet, as there appears to be a personality essentially in the infinite Godhead, that personality must exist eternally; but how this shall be we can neither tell nor know till that time comes in which we shall See Him as He Is. 1Jo_3:2." This is very good Annie, but by your own standard, this is unbiblical(which I do not believe it to be) Could Clarke make a biblical case for his assertion?Yes he could. Could I make one for the continuing distiction of the Godhead after 1 Cor 15:28, yes I could. What all fundamentally orthodox men will humbly admit to, is that no one really knows or understands the true nature of the Trinity. The truest essence of it will remain a mystery until we are there and know. If anyone ever tells you that they know, difinitivly that they understand completely the Trinity, I would avoid that one. I simply disagree with Clarke' contention. That does not make him unbiblical. If you would like my own Biblical defense of my "Father , Son" conversations I would gladly give it. Yet, I am not sure how fruitful it would be, but I too can make contentions within the bounds of orthodoxy and not be unbiblical in my contentions.Be blessed sister in Christ and may iron continue to sharpen iron in an atmosphere of love and mutual respect..............Frank

Dear Frank and Ron, We can disagree on these points. Just posted my feelings or understanding of these things and prefer to let us all have our choice in these matters.Really don't care for debates, because I know from past experiences, that they won't change a thing.And what I don't want to change, is our amiable dialogs.Go with God.Love to you both.Annie

Hi AnnieI agree,debate is rarely fruitful. I only answered because the Word of God is my life and Jesus is my strentgh. When I post part three you will know that I have staked my very life on Jesus, His Word and His small still voice. :) I am more than happy to agree to disagree. If you ever see me violate Scripture , do not hesitate to call me on it. From one trinitarian to another, your brother in Christ..........Frank

Hia Frank, Brother, you said, ""If you ever see me violate Scripture, do not hesitate to call me on it""I tried to Frank, but your answer was mainly just where you had been to School etc..But the second paragraph in your first post and this second quote from another thread are Extra-Biblical and do put Jesus on some sort of Totem Pole type of trinitarianism. What your first Post shows, is a mixture of His Second Coming, the "yet to come" New Jerusalem, etc., and these made up conversations with "Father", truly do take away from The Logos' Co-Equality and Deity. No "Vision from God" will twist or contradict Scripture, nor 'add to it'. And most of the "scenes" you depict, have not yet happened or ever happened and some are only found in Revelation, not when He ascended back to Heaven. It's a mix of two totally different time periods. One yet to Come.When I saw your answer to this, I just figured, there was no use in trying.The second post I did above with the "conversation" of The Logos (he wasn't called Jesus before He was Incarnated) is right after Adam fell, and "They" were discussing The Fall, and Jesus (The Logos) is saying things like .... """Yes Father, but you told me your plan""". Again this lessens the Co-Equality and why I posted so much on Their Equality above.These two "Stories" you made up are just that, "made up". They lower The One True God, whether you see that right now or not.The Co-Equality is missing here with these two threads and a totem pole type trinity is being presented in them. Totem pole; as in differing levels of knowledge and decision making, etc..I believe you are a trinitarian, that's not the debate here ... but your view of The Logos is and that you feel you can make up stories of what was said or happened in Heaven, like a cartoon or something and both those Stories above are not Biblical or called Extra-Biblical.I don't question your devotion to God, as you've just posted, and it's wonderful that some of us got to go to Bible College ... but I know some who have not been, that know more about the Co-Equality of the Three in One better than those with Doctorates.The Love is there and always be there Frank, in my posts and in my heart ... but we must Love Truth first,(He IS The Truth), then all else will come properly, as a by-product of obedience to and utmost respect for The Written Truth ... in Spirit and in Truth.Thank you for the invitation to speak openly with you on this.In His Love,Annie

Brother Ron, The verse saying, "This day have I 'begotten' thee", did not occur at His resurrection.He was the Son of God from birth (conception actually) and called Himself the Son of God, through-out His Ministry.Love you and highly respect you also Ron.Always,AnnieIf you have e-sword, look deeper into "begotten" and I'll just post Clarke here for Acts 13:33 just for one example of my thoughts above.Clarke ~ ""Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee - It has been disputed whether this text should be understood of the incarnation or of the resurrection of our Lord. If understood of his incarnation, it can mean no more than this, that the human nature of our blessed Lord was begotten by the energy of the Holy Spirit in the womb of the blessed virgin; for as to his Divine nature, which is allotted to be God, it could neither be created nor begotten. See some reasons offered for this on Luk_1:35 (note); and, if those be deemed insufficient, a thousand more may be added. But in the above reasons it is demonstrated that the doctrine of the eternal Sonship of Christ is absolutely irreconcilable to reason, and contradictory to itself. Eternity is that which has had no beginning, nor stands in any reference to time: Son supposes time, generation, and father; and time also antecedent to such generation: therefore the rational conjunction of these two terms, Son and eternity, is absolutely impossible, as they imply essentially different and opposite ideas."" Besides the word "begotten" would also contradict "Eternity".

Hi AnnieI undesratnd and appreciate your opinion on the trinity, I just do not understand what makes you think you are right or that there is no possiblity that there are certain aspects of the trinity you do not understand or perhaps are incorrect in your thinking. Do I fully understand the Trinity? No. How arrogant of me to think I did. You quote Clarke again, and he is a good man, but he is just a man with an opinion. You have one view of the trinity that falls within the pale of orthodoxy, I have another, which also falls within the pale of orthodoxy. The fact that I went to seminary seems offensive to you, I only mentioned it to let you know that I am well versed in the position that you take, for that is the position of the seminary that I went to. Jesus did not know the day nor the hour niether did he particularly want to go through the Calvary experience, but He was more interested in His Fathers will. When Jesus cries out from the cross "My God , My God, why has thou forsaken me," I am sure that you have an exlanation. Many do this, they have a doctrinal grid which they place over the Scriptures and then make the scriptures fall into line with that belief. You can have a hierarchy and still have equality. In ancient Europe households, the Father and the son are both the same, they are both the masters of the house, but the son would always give honor and first place to the Father. In the Bible, God the Father has given all glory and honor and dominion to His Son, and His Son turns right around and gives it back to Him, total perfection. I am afraid that people try and seperate Jesus fron His humanity, when in fact, Jesus lost nothing taking on human flesh. Bottom line Annie, when two people agree to disagree, it means just that. The fact that I believe you to be wrong in your overall opinion of the Trinity does not mean that I think less of you, it just means welcome to the human race, none of us have a total lock on the beauty and the majesty of Gods plan. I also am open to the distinct possibility that both of us are missing something, or that you could well be right and I could be wrong. The main thing in all of this is that I met, know and Love Jesus. I know His small still voice, He has never left me nor forsaken me, and that I strive to be more like Him. I come before my Heavenly Father and speak to Him because Jesus made the way, He reconciled me to my Father in Heaven. I praise God that He so loved the world that He gave His only Son. Thats my favorite scripture and it clearly says that the Father gave His son that we may not persish if we believe. That is so simple to me Annie, I do not have to thelogically complicate it with my own understanding, and it is this truth that has transformed men and transformed the world...............Your brother in Christ....Frank

Hia Frank, My husband and I met in the Bible College where he got his degree, so I could never find that "offensive" as you've said. Not at all.If all people's of the world could afford to go to a 'good' Bible College and had the freedoms that we have in our country to study, as we have, it would be wonderful ... but the Lord knows that it also isn't necessary for 'all'.I've known children who can speak on some subjects just as well as we, and sometimes even Floor us, by what comes out of their mouths, by the spirit of Truth alone.When you speak of Jesus' subservient position while in the flesh, by bringing up "My God , My God, why has thou forsaken me,", or of Him "Not knowing the day or the hour" ... you are using His time in the flesh on earth, to carry through from the "time of Adam" up until "his ascension".After He ascended, He resumed His Former Glory ... so we cannot compare His earth time, when He "emptied Himself" etc. to any of the time that He was and now is, in Heaven.You have not made any theological statements, so to speak, that caused me to first post on here, but you made up "stories" of what transpired in Heaven at Adam's Fall and at Christ's ascension. That is what prompted this, nothing more.Revelation 19:11-16, describes the Glorified Christ and He has a different Name that no man knows, yet retains the name The Word of God (The Logos), and on to Chpt.s 21 & 22, when the Three are One God again, after the Millenial reign, as He was One God in the Garden talking with Adam, He/God shall be with us and wipe our tears and the tabernacle of God will be with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God, in the New Jerusalem which is yet to come, which is His Bride in totality. Again, if I may recommend brother RonB's thread "godhead" and say that, our Christology is very important.The Trinity, in as far as how Co-Equal the three in One are 'is' understandable ... and that is where your "stories" missed it and where you call "my position" lays, in Their Co-Equality, shown from the O.T. to The Revelation. Eloheim being plural, etc. If you read your story again, about Adam's Fall, you'll see what I'm trying to say and compare your story to those Scripture verses, that are posted above in that longer post above.Frank, you say you "believe me to be wrong" and that is sad, if Their Co-Equality is all through the O.T., just by the many times "Eloheim" is used alone, even from creation and the Garden.I'll drop this now Brother. I do love you in Him.Annie

Hi AnnieThis quote may be the most telling in our disagreement.............................................When you speak of Jesus' subservient position while in the flesh, by bringing up "My God , My God, why has thou forsaken me,", or of Him "Not knowing the day or the hour" ... you are using His time in the flesh on earth, to carry through from the "time of Adam" up until "his ascension".After He ascended, He resumed His Former Glory ... so we cannot compare His earth time, when He "emptied Himself" etc. to any of the time that He was and now is, in Heaven.Just a couple of things Annie. When He emptied Himself, He lost nothing of His glory, he added flesh. He did not become the Son of God when He stepped into time through Mary, He has always been the Son of God. There is a reason why Elohim is plural. God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirit. That is why my story is not unbiblical, because it assumes the plurality of God the Father with His Son, it is extra-Biblical obviously and dilogue added to aid understanding of the plan of salvation. I too will drop this now sister, I think we have made our points and if it adds to anyones understanding, then priase God. May we continue to serve if and always be ready to give an answer for the hope that lies in us with love and patience......Your brother in Christ........Frank