church in UK | SermonIndex

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dantejones Feb 7, 2006

A question for all Britons out there - or Scots, Welsh, what have you - I'm interested in knowing the state of the Christian Church in the UK (in general terms) and, if you have an understanding, the state of the Church on the Continent(i know the news probably won't be that uplifting, but i'm curious). I've heard a lot of negative things about the state of the Church in the UK, which surprises me considering men like John Wesley and Leonard Ravenhill,among many other evangelists, and revivals in Wales and on the Isle of Man. What is the real state of the church nowin the UK?

sermonindex Feb 7, 2006

Hi My name is Frank, or my sermonindex.net screename is appolus. I am from Scotland. I moved here to the states, Kansas, sixteen years ago. I was saved 15 years ago. I have been back to Scotland several times, last time was three months ago. I also spent a year there in 95 sharing the Gospel. The state of the church in the UK is dire. It is estimated that only 1% of the population go to Church. It is a totaly pot Christian society with most of the people having no clue what it even means to be born-again. It is a complex class system, with the majority being working class and welfare class. Most American missionaries(and there are very few) gravitate towards the tiny middle class, which was always well represented anyway. So, you have the vast majority of Scottish people completely unchurched and without a witness. Most Americans have no clue, and spend their ,money in sending missionaries to places like India and Africa where, per head of population, there are far more Christians than in the UK. Sorry for giving such a bleak picture, but you did ask...........Frank

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saved_matt Feb 7, 2006

Sorry to say but i have to agree with Frank, i could even ask what 'church' in the UK, i live in a relatively large town near Liverpool and so far have only found one solid Bible believing church within a 20 miles radius, I recentl;y heard that in a 10 miles radius there are over 100 churches.We have become obsessed with programs for this and programs for that always the next big thing, whether alpha courses or the purpose driven life, we want churches full of people and dont care if they are saved or not as long as they come to church for and hour and a half every week.From what i have seen the there are 3 types of church, ones with hymn's full of white haired old ladies, ones with louder livelier christian music attended by younger christians who were in the pub the night before, and those slap bang in the middle usually with a larger congregation than the previous two.We spend 18 months in a church council deciding how to impact our community and end up doing nothin at all really, thats the visible church.BUT.....The Lord does have His remnant I've met some of them, people with hearts on fire for God who weep over our nation, and cry out to God to remember people like Wesley and Spurgeon and have mercy on our land for their sakes, like David of old, people who can't help witnessing Christ whether in the queue in the super market or on the job so much that they get warned to stop witnessing, the Lord is also raising up open air preachers not just in our land but all over the world i believe simply because what comes from most pulpits isn't the Word of God so you'll find the largest congregations shopping on saturdays trying to ignore the preacher warning that the wages of sin is death and all who dont repent and turn to Christ will go to Hell forever.Someone I think it was Jesse Morrell said a street preacher reaches more people in 10 minutes of open air than all the other churches in the area on sunday morning.The UK is in a dire state but God does have His people here Glory to Him alone for His great mercy!!matt

sermonindex Feb 7, 2006

I'd put a different complexion on things here, depending on how you use the name 'Christian'.There are supposedly a million evangelicals.The Anglican church has a very evangelical wing -many of whom are charismatic.There are other groups of believers who don't meet in churches at all - house churches, groups who gather in schools or other halls, such as New Frontiers International, and some very serious Christians in other establishments such as Universities and hospitals.Then there are Methodists - everywhere (not that the others aren't everywhere but) who are tucked away in rural communities (mainly with Anglicans) and are often known for their faith, their faithfulness and their good works, because they have a ruthless system of pastoral visiting, and, they are training people to do village evangelism. With the Anglicans, they have lay preachers. Many believers join a 'church' which gives them freedom to serve the Lord, regardless of the local 'church politics'. The other force to be reckoned with are the Christans of Afro-Carribean or Asian origin. God has His people. They may not get reckoned in with the formal denominations, but, they are salt and light in our society.

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suzy Feb 7, 2006

My view point of Christianity in England is jaundiced, I'm afraid! Down here in the west country we always seem a bit behind everyone else in England! We don't hear too much what goes on 'up country' as we say. The state of Christianity is dire. However, I believe there are the 'remnant' and those who truly want a revival from the Lord.In my small city of Exeter, we Christians seem to play 'Musical Churches' (are you familiar with the children's party game 'musical chairs'?) - we go from one church to another, and after a while when something happens we don't like, or a split or division we get up and move onto another group or denomination! I suppose at least we Christians are getting to know each other!! 'Growth' is through 'imports and exports' from one church to another!! - rather than addition from the world as Acts tells us it should be. Acts 2 v 47 :oops: Cornwall is very much Wesley territory, but Methodism is fairly dead there. We have a new Archbishop of York, who is a Ugandan who suffered under Idi Amin, and he seems to be a great guy who believes the Bible, and I was most impressed with the little I heard on the radio a while back - (unlike other Archbishops of York of the past who did not even seem to be Christian!). There are some great things that are going on. I believe prayer is on the increase. There is the London prayer network - Christians who live in and around London have a prayer network. Just found a web link if you are interested. http://www.londonprayer.net/Default.aspx This will give you a good idea of some of the positive things happening in the South East.And of course last week we had the wonderful answer to prayer which you will find on the News and Current Affairs section of SermonIndex - 'Anti-Christian bill defeated by one vote'. https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=9404&forum=48&6We certainly feel the challenge more strongly to pray. We see the need daily now as we are experiencing Islam on the rise. Is it this that is going to shake us out of our apathy?Sue

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dantejones Feb 8, 2006

hey, thanks for the answers, guys. I guess I was surprised to hear about the '1%' of Britons that make it to church just because it seems that Britain has had such a strong heritage of christian theologians and evangelists since the Reformation. I've heard the fire of Booth, C.H. Spurgeon, Wesley, Wigglesworth, Fox, and Ravenhill; the eloquent words of Chesterton, Tolkien, and C.S. Lewis, and of course all the great conversions by revival or open-air preaching, where thousands upon thousands were saved from sin. My next question is, if all those men and events came within the last 350 years on this relatively small island (no offense intended, British brothers and sisters), just how did the church get in so dire a predicament?

sermonindex Feb 8, 2006

HiThe vast majority of working class people in UK have never been reached. In Scotland there were dead denominations, Church of Scotland, Catholic church and so on and they have had no impact on the people they "minister," to. The whole notion of being born-again in Britain is a joke to most people. They liken it to Jehovahs Witnesses or Mormons. "Born-agains," are considered weird and "religious nuts." They are open for much ridicule. In Scotland, most Christians are adult converts which means that the few, the remnant, are strong in their faith and convictions as there is a real price to pay socially and in the workforce for being Christian. At the turn of the last century,the Salvation Army was a poerful force amongst the working class and they , more than anyone made some real inroads into the people. Tradgically, the Catholic church has more contacts with the working class people in Scotland than any other church, but since their status is most definately dead, that leaves no sizeable organisations to reach out. The small Pentecostal churches do a great job, but their backs are to the wall. The Elim Pentecostal and the Assemblies of God and the Struthers Churches are some that have had impact.........Frank

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richrock Mar 27, 2012

I'm living in Wales, and the situation here is (in my own humble opinion)... sad. It is also limited to a few churches we have visited, and know friends are in.

I weep for our Church - we lost our pastor over a year ago to an affair, our elders have conflicting theologies (from my discussions and observations) and after a recent discussion with a close Christian brother, the love in our fellowship has grown very cold, almost as superficial as the world. Also, there have been a number of divorces/splits, of young people falling away to the world...

Other churches - I don't know. From some other local churches my wife and I visited, it seems as if the life has been sucked out of them, all the 'ingredients' are there, but there's little else, or something missing...

I did write something much longer and personal which caused tears - how so many of us shun Holiness in our lives for the comforts of the world. I am in the process of clearing out the comforts and learning to rely on God's word alone.

I am encouraged by this site, and am incredibly blessed to have found it! It's a pleasure to be able to download and listen to sermons I long to hear in our own Church - which probably could tell you a lot of the state here in the UK.

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Smokey Mar 27, 2012

This is a link to an absolutely solid Bible believing church in Ballymena Ireland that has a bible believing, preaching pastor named John Greer. This church has a vast library of past sermons, and offers a live stream Sunday morning.
www.ballymenafpc.org

You will be blessed by this pastor.. Blesings Greg

sermonindex Mar 27, 2012

I attended the Faith Mission convention in Edinburgh Scotland last year and although it was well attended, with white heads in the majority, of evangelicals, they had moved a long way from the beginings of the FM.

In those days, they believed in entire sanctification, and they even refused to have missionaries, which they sent out in pairs to the villages in the British Isles, who had not entered into the perfect life.

They were great days and many were saved through this work but sadly, it seems that they watered down the message and the unsanctified started to be accepted. And now, although they want revival they would not accept the holiness message if it was given to them. The nearest they will go is the Keswick watered down version.

It made me sad.

The problem in the UK is the strength of liberalist policies. It is in a sad state indeed.

Brenda

sermonindex Mar 27, 2012

"In those days, they believed in entire sanctification, and they even refused to have missionaries, which they sent out in pairs to the villages in the British Isles, who had not entered into the perfect life."

Hi Brenda,

Can you explain "entire sanctification" from scripture, and give examples of men from scripture who walked in this? Maybe give some more modern examples as well? What do you mean by "entire sanctification"?

sermonindex Mar 27, 2012

http://cbounds.blogspot.co.uk/2006/05/what-is-entire-sanctification.html

My definition would come under the 5th category with a small amount of explanation. It is not entirely correct.

Entire sanctification is when a man is restored to the state of Adam before he fell and many can be found in scripture who qualify and are called perfect such as Job. Sadly few modern examples.

sermonindex Mar 27, 2012

Sean-

This is so cool, the Lord put this thought on my heart this morning not even having seen this thread...

There is a man in a warehouse with a little lamp. He makes sure that the little area that his lamp illuminates is spotless. In his mind his warehouse is perfectly clean -that is he has reached entire sanctification in his "humble" opinion. Look - spotless (just don’t shine a brighter light in there or who knows what it will reveal!)

There is another man, with a burning bright lamp in his warehouse with some cobwebs off in a corner he hasn't seen yet. The warehouse was a huge mess and he has been working diligently to clean it. The first man comes over and comments how the second man has been neglecting his cleaning duties.

This is often the story of a believer who claims sinless perfection or entire sanctification. They have little light from the Lord (probably because of pride) and so they have little they are aware of. Completely ignorant would often be a better judgment to make of ourselves then completely sanctified. Of course the normal nt Christian life is one of walking in the spirit, victory over known willful sin, in love for Jesus. At the same time it would be wise to beat our chest or say with David "Who can understand his errors? cleanse thou me from secret faults" rather than to say like a pharisee "I am entirely sanctified".

I am not saying this to offend anyone in this thread and have been guilty of this before too. Usually the first thing a brighter light exposes is pride.

Respectfully in Christ,

-Jim

[Edit to fix wording]

sermonindex Mar 28, 2012

Amen Jim. That is a GREAT analogy. No matter how far along we are in our walk and sanctification with the Lord, He always has the ability to show us, or bring us into some situation, that show us that we are utterly dependent on Him, and still not perfected this side of heaven.

Brenda, you said:

"Entire sanctification is when a man is restored to the state of Adam before he fell and many can be found in scripture who qualify and are called perfect such as Job. Sadly few modern examples"

Hi Brenda, I read the article but all it did was give explanations of what people believe. There was zero scripture support. If we are to be entirely sanctified to the extent that we are even beyond being tempted, then this all important doctrine should be clearly layed out in the scriptures in multiple places. Can you provide a something with more substance from the scripture?

Thanks....

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roadsign Mar 28, 2012

God does have His people here Glory to Him alone for His great mercy!!

Yes! Last year while on a tour through England, I prayed that God would show me where he had faithful followers. (Tour guides and brochures don’t tell you that). It so happened that while we were in at Cambridge University, we stumbled into the Round Church – and lo and behold – there were Francis Schaeffer books on display. This is how we discovered a vibrant work for God. Christian Heritage is attempting to reclaim some of the forgotten history of the University – where God worked so mightily. I must say, it was an awesome experience for me to tread the same ground and the hallways that our mighty saints of the past did – those who wrote the KJV, the Greek text, the Puritan writers, Wilberforce, and so forth. But those colleges are among the least glamorous. The pride of England is her grand cathedrals – King’s College, etc. It’s obvious that most people are more interested in what humans have done to bring glory to the nation. And God comes across as an icon of a distant past.

But not at Christian Heritage: http://www.christianheritageuk.org.uk/ You can find audio messages here, articles, summer training programs, etc.

Diane

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narrowpath Mar 28, 2012

There are many churches in the UK and especially where I live and they all do their things. Their is a dearth of the word of God here in the UK. There is all sorts of activity going on and they all have their characteristics
Some are hyper-charismatic
Some are kingdom-dominion
Or Liberal
Some strict
Or pastor dominated
Or feel-good-we-are-all-family-and-want-you-to-be-comfortable
Some teach the word accurately but know not the power of the Spirit

This has a very harmful effect on the society. Today they presented a report to the prime minister about their analysis of the riots last year.
They found that materialism, neglect of family and values, lack of vision for the future were the main reason for the riots.

We tried to find a fellowship close by and could not find any in a 10 mile radius where I could hear a living word and receive bread from heaven. Now we commute 30 miles to a fellowship a friend of mine started.
Yet I must say that in most churches you always find a handful of dear saints who really love the Lord. Some come out of their fellowships they attended for many years and form little groups in the hope to find true fellowship in the Lord with the saints.

sermonindex Mar 28, 2012

sscot, no-one is beyond being tempted to walk by the flesh though sin loses its attraction when we are ES`ed. And if we do succumb we will fall.

Now then, the whole of the Bible is about entire sanctification to me and the command to be holy as He is holy, which is entirely holy but whatever other verses I pull out you will not see it it if your heart is not yearning for it. So no I cannot prove it to you from scripture but here are some verses to be getting on with.

http://www.angelfire.com/va2/campmeeting/sanctification.html

Rather than it be laid out plainly, God hides things until He gives revelation.

L

lindi1208 Mar 28, 2012

Like many others have said the church in England is in a very lukewarm state. I live in Norfolk and have done my fair round searching for a fellowship or church filled with truth and life and like narrow path mentioned there is plenty of hyper charismatic, kingdom dominion, prosperity, liberals, strict churches the list goes on. It can be discouraging but Jesus Christ said the gates of hell will not prevail against His church. In my search for the fellowship where I can grow I have met some sincere few believers who are on fire and God has knit our souls together in harmony. So despite the situation there a few shining lights a small remnant united by the love of the Father and Our Lord Jesus Christ who still being sanctified and striving in prayer for a revival in England.