sign of the times poll....

I don't get it. After all the revival preaching we hear on this site, why do most of you think that false peace in Jerusalem and false prophets in the church are the two biggest signs of the coming of Christ? What kind of church did He say He was coming back for, a heresy filled circus house, or a bride that reflects the FULLNESS of the glory of Christ? Revival is the most significant sign of His return. Jerusalem has always had false peace. False prophets have always been here, starting with Balaam and certainly not ending with him. BUT, have we had true genuine and LASTING revival in the church? No. We haven't. It's starting in other countries and is making its way to America. It's clear. He is returning for a SPOTLESS bride, not a foolish, false and filth stained, emaciated church. Get away from the gloom and doom and return to the scriptures!mark jr.

The reason apostasy is the sign is because Paul says it is (he takes his cue from Jesus and Daniel, as well). It is complete and utter spiritual apostasy that marks the end, not a victorious revival. The revival that we will see at the end will not be the massive world-wide revival that many expect. It will indeed not be a "revival" in the narrow sense of the word, but will be an outpouring of the Spirit on the faithful to keep them and guide them in the midst of the fire.Please tell me where you get the idea of a large-scale revival being the sign of the end. I see this nowhere in Scripture. (As I do not see "false peace in the natural Jerusalem" as a sign of the end, either.)On the other hand, Paul tells us that there will be apostasy and that God's Temple (the Church) will follow Antichrist, just as it is now in large part following the spirit of Antichrist:1 Thess 2:1-11 " ... with regard to the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and our gathering together to Him ... Let no one in any way deceive you, for it will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,who opposes and exalts himself above every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, displaying himself as being God ... And now you know the restraining thing, so that he is revealed in his time."Let us remember that the true Church, the Bride of Christ, is not the same as the organization that many try to revive and bring life to. This is why I am not a "revivalist" per se, because I think the term is perhaps misleading. The Church organization will never be revived because it is man's institution. The Bride never truly needs revived because the true Bride is already living. What we term as revival would perhaps better be called the conversion of the unregenerate -- but that is not palatable enough for most, so we focus on reviving a dead entity that cannot be revived.

...when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?’’ The question implies a strong negation: No, he will not; he himself foresees it. Christ tells us that Satan is a liar, and the father of lies; and his kingdom is a kingdom of darkness. Satan has all his power of dominion by darkness: Luke 22.53. And Col. 1.13. Devils are called "the rulers of the darkness of this world." 2 Cor. 11.13, 14. "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ; and no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light." "Believe not every spirit, but try the spirits, whether they are of God;" and this is the reason he gives, because many false prophets are gone out into the world" The couterfeit Christians distinguished themselves by a show, and great boast, of extraordinary knowledge in divine things; Col. 2.8 & I Tim. 1.6,7 and I Tim. 6.3-5 & II Tim. 2.14-19 & Tit.1.10,16. That is why their followers called themselves Gnostics, from their great pretended knowledge: and the "devil" in them mimicked the miraculous gifts of the Holy Spirit, in visions, revelations, prophecies, miracles. That is why they are called false apostles, and false prophets: see Matt.24.24. Again, there was a false show of, and lying pretensions to, great holiness and devotion in words: Rom.16.17-19 & Eph.4.14. They are also called deceitful workers, and wells and clouds without water. II Cor.11.13 & II Pet.2.17 & Jude 1.12. There was also in them a show of extraordinary piety and righteousness in their superstitious worship: Col.2.16-23. So they had a false, proud, and bitter zeal: Gal.4.17,19 & I Tim.1.6 and I Tim 6.4,5. Last and certainly not least, a false show of humility, in affecting an extraordinary outward meanness and dejection, when indeed they were "vainly puffed up in their fleshly mind:" and made a righteousness of their humility, and were exceedingly lifted up with their eminent piety: Col.2.18,23. I John 2.20 states that we have an "unction", an anointing. So, let us be "alert" to the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, the Spirit of Truth, and submit to HIS leading. He is the...Co-regent of the Conscience :John 16.7The Conscience Renewer: Romans: 12.2& Conscience Washer - Titus 3.5John 16.8-11:And when HE is come, HE will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:Of sin, because they believe not on MEOf righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye shall see me no more;Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged....*****In closing, Let us re-remind ourselves that Satan transforms himself into an angel of light and that he is wiser than Daniel. It wouldn't be beyond his imagination to influence a "Counterfeit Revival". A spiritual diversion tatic, if you please...God Bless, and pray like Elijah!*****

The false prophets talked about in the bible aren't preaching Jesus, and therefore aren't even in the church. Those verses describe our modern day shamans, wiccan practitioners, yoga guru's, buddhist monks and so on. These people claim to be prophetic people, yet do not call Jesus God and lead people away from sin. I see in the word that false prophets rise up and say, "here's the christ!", or "I am the christ", but it isn't saying that these people will claim christ is messiah and God and man all wrapped up in Jesus. The bible says you can't say both. They are spiritual of course....and do every wicked thing to decieve the perishing (2Thess 2:9-10), not the alive in christ who have the witness of the spirit to teach and guide in all truth and not leave us as orphans. Jesus said that was one of the very things the Holy Spirit would do; guide us in all truth, remind us of His words and keep us. Does satan have a monopoly on miracles? These posts I read glorify the devil and belittle christs ability "to lose none that the Father has given me." So if there is a falling away, they never were converted and thus never belonged to the church, just like the 70 that went away after healing the sick and driving out demons, yet couldn't eat His flesh and drink His blood. They never really knew Him. And still not dealt with, why do the scriptures say that a glorious bride that radiates the fullness of God's glory is what jesus will come back for? How can it be full of apostasy and idiocy and still radiate the fullness of His glory to a point that Jesus just has to come and get it? :-? It can't be both ways. So, instead of quoting a mile of daniel and other verses, show how BOTH passages and idea's from God's word have harmony together, because the word must flow together without contradiction. Show me the money :-)

Not true; (except for Balaam) the false prophets were in Israel (the Old Testament Church). The false prophets mentioned in the NT are teaching Jesus, but falsely.1 Cor 11:2-4For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.But I am afraid, lest as the serpent deceived Eve by his craftiness, your minds should be led astray from the simplicity and purity of devotion to Christ. For if one comes and preaches another Jesus whom we have not preached, or you receive a different spirit which you have not received, or a different gospel which you have not accepted, you bear this beautifully.

Quotes from markjr: "I don't get it"? & "Show me the money"!

Historically, people have always wanted to see the "good" side of things. When the true prophets prophesied, they were accused of being gloom and doom. (I choose not to quote scripture to defend this because some of it has already been quoted. I'm only replying for others that may read).The true revival of the end will not be as we've seen in the past. It will not have anyone leading it (except the Holy Spirit). It won't have any big names and it won't necessarily have a visible presence. Jesus said, “Now having been questioned by the Pharisees as to when the kingdom of God was coming, He answered them and said, "The kingdom of God is not coming with signs to be observed;nor will they say, ‘Look, here it is!’ or, ‘There it is!’ For behold, the kingdom of God is in your midst."” (Lu 17:20-21 NAS95).Let's not be deceived into believing that the revival we SEE is the real thing. There WILL be a revival and there WILL be a spotless bride, but it will be unseen and will be authored and orchestrated by Jesus himself (no big names).

In my reading of scripture I see two things happening at the same time. There is the scripture of Jesus asking if He will find faith on the earth; the one about Him coming for a spotless bride; but there is also the parable of the field sewn with good seed, and the enemy comes in and sews in tares among the wheat. And we are seeing both come to fruition in our day. Ministers in the western world, especially North America, for the most part believed that there would be a last great revival before the return of the Lord. But many of the same also warned about the rising apostasy that they saw growing in the church.The last twenty years has seen the most salvations, the most persecution, and the largest advancement of the cause of Christ. Have you ever wondered why China is so worried about Christianity. At the rate it's growing in China it will take over the country in the next 50yrs! The Continent of Africa's population is now over 50 percent Christian. The wheat is growing.In the Western World Humanism is rapant. Evolution, though very easy to disprove, goes unchallenged in our schools and is accepted as fact. TBN plays host to a plethera of TV preacher superstars spewing hell out of their mouths to Christians who no longer know enough about the Word of God to fend off someone as blatant as Kim Clement. Not only is the Word of Faith movement off base, but also ministers in fundementalist movements who are more concerened with pleasing their congregations and building the largest and friendliest churches in town. In all this the truth of God is left lying in the streets. The tares are growing.The revival is happening now, and has been happening. So is the falling away. We in the western world have been on the sidelines hearing about the great acts of faith of men and women who are risking their lives to claim the name of Christ. "We are busy trying to have 10,000 in Sunday School while our children are going to Hell." (David Wilkerson) "Our children are dying in the streets and men of God are off chasing dreams." (me)In Christ,Jeremy Hulsey

Interesting that you brought this up. Seems we are going in two opposite directions at the same time. Just read an article in Christianity Today that applies to this, "Turning the mainline around". For what it's worth the impression I got was of a church 'hierachy' that is a largely liberal, pluralistic, political. While at the same time there is a growing 'grass roots' effort, renewal groups, a call to return to orthodox Christianity and here is what gives me a lot of hope, it's the young that are embracing it.The ministry that is going on here, on this site, bears that out. Agreed it will be a case of both/and,....The revival is happening now, and has been happening. So is the falling away. We in the western world have been on the sidelines hearing about the great acts of faith of men and women who are risking their lives to claim the name of Christ. "We are busy trying to have 10,000 in Sunday School while our children are going to Hell." (David Wilkerson) "Our children are dying in the streets and men of God are off chasing dreams." (me)Surely we know nothing of persecution here compared to other countries. The western world has been so blessed that it is cursed, has forgotten where they came from and what god it believes in, not unlike the Israelites in times past.Yet God always has a remnant, those who have not bowed the knee to Baal.The revival is happening now, and has been happening.Never really thought of it that way, could it be that it is just begining to pick up momentum?2 timothy 3 and 4 sure appear to be where we are at in this day and age, what's to come only God knows. But the wheat will grow up amongst the tares as you stated and you can be sure that us "backwords/fundamentalist" types will start feeling the heat in the days to come.

Very profound post. I agree with you Jeremy that God has ALWAYS had a remnant (a people). In many ways, the term revival is more dramatic, than just saying that God has always had a people - in every generation.I agree with Warnock, though, that "at the ends of the ages" there will be a culmination of Glory of God, such as never been seen. AND simultaneously a darkness and judgment such as never been seen.Both you and Mike are right on target. A new generation of believers is being raised up. Those in my generation and before are stuck in our traditions and methodologies.

You have heard a great thing as the Lord is revealing and unfolding His plan to you.Surely we will increase from Glory to Glory but wasn't the anointing that the apostles recieved with its brightness of Glory and witness enough? We have that Spirit that was recieved on pentecost!Not for the last days. His power in the early Church will not be as great as the power of the latter church...“’The latter glory of this house will be greater than the former,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘and in this place I will give peace,’ declares the LORD of hosts."” (Haggai 2:9 NAS95)God is good...All the time...