Is the Catholic Church a true Christian Church?

HI! kk. just try to keep this simple, no long writting for a boring post.?(( what makes a True belief in Christ?)))) ,and What is the true Creed, and dogma,of a Christ believing Church???

I would just simply like to ask this question.Did our brothers and sisters who died opposing Romish rule, and religious tyranny die in vain?There has never been a time until recently that Protestants and Roman Catholics sided together.Perhaps supporters of Rome should look at the website of the Vatican, and read their Catechism which was wriiten by Ratzinger himself I believe.Here are some excerpts 1. 963 Since the Virgin Mary's role in the mystery of Christ and the Spirit has been treated, it is fitting now to consider her place in the mystery of the Church. "The Virgin Mary . . . is acknowledged and honored as being truly the Mother of God and of the redeemer. . . . She is 'clearly the mother of the members of Christ' . . . since she has by her charity joined in bringing about the birth of believers in the Church, who are members of its head."502 "Mary, Mother of Christ, Mother of the Church."503 1. 966 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things, so that she might be the more fully conformed to her Son, the Lord of lords and conqueror of sin and death."508 The Assumption of the Blessed Virgin is a singular participation in her Son's Resurrection and an anticipation of the resurrection of other Christians: 1. 492 The "splendor of an entirely unique holiness" by which Mary is "enriched from the first instant of her conception" comes wholly from Christ: she is "redeemed, in a more exalted fashion, by reason of the merits of her Son".136 The Father blessed Mary more than any other created person "in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places" and chose her "in Christ before the foundation of the world, to be holy and blameless before him in love".137 ARTICLE 1THE SACRAMENT OF BAPTISM 1. 1213 Holy Baptism is the basis of the whole Christian life, the gateway to life in the Spirit (vitae spiritualis ianua),4 and the door which gives access to the other sacraments. Through Baptism we are freed from sin and reborn as sons of God; we become members of Christ, are incorporated into the Church and made sharers in her mission: "Baptism is the sacrament of regeneration through water in the word."5 1. 1215 This sacrament is also called "the washing of regeneration and renewal by the Holy Spirit," for it signifies and actually brings about the birth of water and the Spirit without which no one "can enter the kingdom of God."7 The newly baptized is now, in the only Son, a child of God entitled to say the prayer of the children of God: "Our Father." 1. 1258 The Church has always held the firm conviction that those who suffer death for the sake of the faith without having received Baptism are baptized by their death for and with Christ. This Baptism of blood, like the desire for Baptism, brings about the fruits of Baptism without being a sacrament. 1271 Baptism constitutes the foundation of communion among all Christians, including those who are not yet in full communion with the Catholic Church: "For men who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in some, though imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church. Justified by faith in Baptism, [they] are incorporated into Christ; they therefore have a right to be called Christians, and with good reason are accepted as brothers by the children of the Catholic Church."81 "Baptism therefore constitutes the sacramental bond of unity existing among all who through it are reborn."82 I have more if requested. Please do not get me wrong, I am not Catholic bashing but rather Truth sharing!

What is the Creed of the christain Church???The body of Christ.Answer this 1st!!!! this will stop all the finger pointing,what is the church built upon????? answer this???? PLease answer this ???? before judging one another,Let that be in Gods hands.

What is the Creed of the christain Church???The body of Christ.Answer this 1st!!!! this will stop all the finger pointing,what is the church built upon????? answer this???? PLease answer this ???? before judging one another,Let that be in Gods hands.I'm afraid I don't understand what you are saying.I do not think that it is wrong to point out the core beliefs of the Roman church. Christ said to beware of "false prophets" so we need to beware of anyhting that is contrary to scripture. It is not judgemental to post what they believe is it? This is from the Vatican website.I think perhaps you have me all wrong, as I am not trying to judge anyone, just to put forth truth.Perhaps you can tell me do you beleive that Mary is the co-redeemer of mankind?Have you ever investigated the obelisk that is in St. Peter's square? Did you know that this is the same obelisk from the book of Jeremiah? Jeremiah 43:13"He will also shatter the obelisks of Heliopolis, which is in the land of Egypt; and the temples of the gods of Egypt he will burn with fire."(NASB) Did you know that surrounding the obelisk is a four spoked design, which happens to be the symbol of Baal, and then there is an eight spoked design around that which is the symbol for Ishtar? And do you think these are by coincidence?

Hi Krispy,I guess sermonindex is not for me. There was a day that I would go to great lengths to defend myself and my beliefs, but I feel that is counterproductive when you are not considering changing your mind. I came to sermonindex for the fellowship and encouragement and I have enjoyed a great deal of that from Greg and Ron and Diane and others. I think I've given a bit from time to time, too. I realize that my posts about Catholics were a bit heated, but comparing Catholics and homosexuals on your part was a bit off-color if you ask me.I guess that I often feel in these forums that we're in a race of intellects or something, and if I fish around and don't come up with the right piece of theology or history, I've lost the race that I didn't know I was in. It's very competative, and I've had enough. Krispy, I think it's a bit of a cop out to give me such a response (noted: the snide comment about "political correctedness"--if I was the kind to go with the majority, I wouldn't be going against the overwhelming flow on this issue), and then send a pm to smooth things over. I am probably not the first to tell you that you're a bit too "krispy", am I? Something to think about...I guess one of the downfalls of an online situation is that you really don't know the other person, except in a sort of one-dimensional way. Krispy, you don't know me at all--not at all...I feel that we are beginning to talk less and less loving Jesus and more and more about theological correctness. I, for one, have other things to do and would like to bow out gracefully if that is possible...PhebeP.S. My brother worked in Mother Teresa's home for the dying in Calcutta and guess what? I am looking forward very much to meeting Mother Teresa in heaven.

You see this is my very point,none of you =j-bird or roaringlabm, none of you can come up with the true common creed that links christains together by the core of there very belief! but so fast to point out there differences!

brethreni was raised catholic and first found Christ there. i was not aware of the depth of the doctrines and dogma and all that other stuff. i believed Christ died for my sins and was pretty much foggy on the other stuff. most catholics aren't very knowledgeable concerning doctrine or dogma. having learned some about it i'm not a practising catholic but that's where i first heard Christ preached and accepted Him as have many others before and since. my mom is pretty well-versed in catholic doctrine and all that so naturally i was concerned for her and asked her if Christ was her savior. She confessed that and that was it for me. She's saved alright but after many years of being catholic there is clearly a lot of stuff that needs to be discarded which doesn't happen overnight. i don't think anyone here who has been saved can say that all the mess that was in their life before was done away with immediately. it goes without saying that catholicism is filled with all kinds of lies and blasphemies against God but so does protestantism (perhaps to a lesser degree) also contain its foolishnesses too. in looking at protestant churches and structure for instance, it's no different from the catholic church (save for no pope) the priest is now a pastor, the litergy is the same pretty much, the hierarchy is the same, the one thing that is different is that the protestant churches profess a salvation on grace only as opposed to some grace and then some sacramental aspect as in catholicism. bro Krispy you mentioned that passage in revelation in which the angel called out to God's people to come out. that says to me that the Lord will have some of His elect there in the midst till the last minute so that they can hear the Lord call them out and then they'll come out. why He has it so, i don't know save to say for His own good pleasure.

In the Early Church,There were many differnt forms of the Christian confession of faith,before being Baptized.The earliest Christain creed was Probaby a simple confession of faith.That Jesus is the Christ,The Messiah,and that Christ is Lord,By publicly confessing this belief,the person could be baptized into Christ,dying,andRising with Him into the New life of The Kingdom of God in the Name of the father, and The Son,and The Holy Spirit.thus in the Gospel we find John the Baptist baptizing the people as a sign of repentance in preparation for the Kingdom of God which was coming to men with Christ The Messiah.Christ him self was baptized by John not because he was sinful and needed to repent, but because in allowing Himself to be baptized He showed that indeed He was "God's Beloved Son"The Saviour and Messiah ,"The Lamb of God who takes upon Himself the sins of the world"matthew 3,mark 1,luke3,john 1-3

perhaps the best thing to do in these doctrinal tiffs(i think i just made that word up, anyways in Matts dictionary it means quarrel or small fight) is to remember that it doesnt matter wether we pronounce one church(lowercaps for a reason) evil, or right, or anti-christ. Because in the end we should be witnessing to everyone and wether they be rc, baptist, aog, luth whatever there should always be a prompting for sharing testimonies with any new person that claims christianity. If they have a story then I'd brand em "Christian" if not then...well we know what to do :). As for the rc church...if any believes in grace by faith and works...aint gonna cut it with God

Frankly, I don't believe that any denomination is the "true" Church - though they all think they are. Only those individuals who have been born from above - by the Spirit, those who are true FOLLOWERS of Christ, live by the law of the Spirit, and persevere to the end are his. There are many who believe that they are born again and feel secure belonging to the "right' denomination. However, they are just as lost in their self-deception as the worst of any religion. Having said that, I do believe that some churches have better creeds than others. For example, the Presbyterians where I am read the Apostle's Creed frequently. However, I know that very few of them take the words seriously. They just read the words Some may believe them, itelectually, but many don't know what the words mean and most don't really care. At least that's the way I see it, I could be wrong. (Although the Lord did reveal to me supernaturally that most of them were trusting in their building.) Baptists, Pentacostals these days have a tendency to preach easy believism. That is just as deadly as RC's long list of 'requirements'. How many Catholics read their creeds and really believe them with all their hearts? I don't know, but I suspect the vast majority go through the religious motions with a passive mind (just like in most churches) assuming that their religious allegiance gets them into heaven. I wouldn't want to judge Mother Teresa. I once read some of her meditations and she expressed her faith in Christ. If she didn't make it into heaven then I would suspect that almost NO evangelical will. Mother Teresa sure fit the bill as far as surrendering her life to Christ and giving up the pleasures of this world in order to love the destitute. I ask, is it less sinful to trust in one's church affiliation, building, creeds, material things, etc than to trust in Mary? Are some "idols" permissable (like ours) while someone else's idols will mean hell for them? affectionately your thorn, Diane

If I have come across as self righteous at all I apologize as this not my intention. I believe that a person may truly find Christ in the RC system. For example Fenelon, Madame Guyon etc. But I think that there then comes a moment where they are at odds over what is right and what is wrong.I too do not think that there is one group who is distinctly correct, but by simply using scripture one can and should examine first his/her own heart to see if they be in the faith, and then the heart of whatever denomination/movement they belong to to see if they be in the faith.It matters little who is right and who is wrong, yet the point is as Paul says to preach Christ, and repentance toward GOD, and faith in Jesus Christ.I trust that we can agree on that! :-)

so can any here agree that the catholic church, are christians, do you think for one moment that a church founded by peter,could have lasted so long if they where not true christian.if fact there may be issue in any church that might diff from yours.what is the common creed in christian That Christ Is Lord and Saviour,"Lamb of God who takes upon himself the sins of the world."to belive other than this is called false christ,like Jim jones in 1979!!!

church founded by peterThe RC church was not founded by Peter, but instead it was created when Constantine married Christianity to the idol worship of the Roman Empire. Thus you get the statues etc. You should really look into the history of the RC church, and the Protestant church and then see for yourself.I suppose it simply depends on what Christ is being taught within any individual fellowship or church.

I did not say that rcc was founded by peter,Do you remember Jim Jones in 1979, or where you to young, if not, do a search on it.do you know what the rcc creed is about? do they teach Christ The Messiah! Christ Risen!The Good News!If yes than what is your point?

Do you remember Jim Jones in 1979 I do know who Jim Jones was, and it was a tragic thing that happened in Guyana. I also know how Mr. Jones professed himself to be god. I have to tell you that this is similar to the view that the Pope has of himself being the "vicar of Christ."Also the way that the traditional teachings of Popes are held above scripture in many instances.I do not understand this creed you are talking about as you have yet to declare what you are getting at, but creeds are not scripture, and thus never take the place of scripture no matter how sincere they be.

LeT me break it down a creed,is something we christians can agree on about are faith,Pope is not veiwed as a christ like fig or christ himself..but as a apostle like fig..Get your facts straight before making such claim.