catholics with spiritual gifts?

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warriorofgod Feb 26, 2006

Hello , yall. I'm new to this site but not to the body. I have studied this isssue of tongues for a long while now. I'm sure many of us have. I am convinced what the bible teaches about tongues on how there were two different manifestations. The the one in acts and the one in the corinthian church were different. This is one of the many things that i had found out about it. Here's my point, the bible seems to confirm the existance of tongues but there is something very wrong in the body today! If tongues are real today then why is everybody in most charasmatic churches speaking with them? The bible says that not all speak with tongues.(1 Cor. 12:30) Most of the church also teaches that all you have to do is recieve the gift. They simply go into another room or on the altar and recieve the gift. By praying over them, they manifest this gift. Doesn't bible say that the spirit gives gifts as he wills?(1 cor. 12:11)I usto go to theses churches, and it seems to me that we have the holy spirit programed for our pleasure. Also, my last question is this. Why are the catholics now speaking in tongues. Today they are using this and other charasmatic gifts to bring forth memebers. The average catholic church a couple of years ago was about fifty members. After implementation of the gifts, membership sored to 200 and growing. Many would say there are false tongues. I could understand that arguement since satan is able to counterfiet alot of things. But just like money, there are ways to spot which one is authentic and which one is not. With the bible we are able to spot false teachings, false prophecies, false christians, but we are left in the dark about false tongues? The bible talks about lying wonders and miracles but the question still stands, How do you tell the difference? Please help me with this. God Bless you.

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ginnyrose Feb 28, 2006

Sir,I do not think I can answer your question in depth, except to say the scriptures plainly teach us "that by their fruits ye shall know them." What does a person's everyday life reveal? Is he/she walking with Jesus? Are they holy? How do they regard sin? Is sin abhorrant to him/her? One time I had a client (at a CPC) who was in a cult and she told me how they spoke in tongues...and no, she was not a christian, even though she said she has spoken in tongues. My client was a fornicator, and not necessarily repentent of her lifestyle, which means she knew she shouldn't live like this but was not sorry enough to WANT to change. ginnyrose

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warriorofgod Feb 28, 2006

thank you for your input.

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lilrevpj Feb 28, 2006

Might I suggest listening to Kathryn Kuhlman's message on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit Parts 1 & 2 available through this website....--excellent reply Ginnyrose---

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warriorofgod Feb 28, 2006

Does this person teach how you can tell the differenmce between false tongues and true? I know about the baptism. I had it! I don't speak in tongues though.

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lilrevpj Mar 1, 2006

She does quite emphatically address the issue of the true vs. the false.

sermonindex Mar 1, 2006

Might I suggest listening to Kathryn Kuhlman's message on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit Parts 1 & 2 available through this website....For what it's worth... I would not recommend Kathryn Kuhlman's teachings on the Holy Spirit. She was at the forefront of what is called the Word of Faith Movement, which is heretical to the core. Not one of the supposed "healings" that took place at her crusades was ever medically documented as true, she admitted to having an affair yet continued on in ministry. Not to mention that scripture forbids women to teach men, and she was obviously in disobedience to that....and Benny Hinn claims her as his #1 inspiration... that alone should be a red flag.So... I would caution you against referring to Kuhlman for any insight into the Holy Spirit. I know some of her messages are on this site, and it's not my intention to undermine SI. But I cant be silent on this.Krispy

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ginnyrose Mar 1, 2006

Warrior,In thinking more about your question: how can one know whether the tongues you are hearing is from God or not. I would urge you to be in communion with God about this issue and grant you discernment when you encounter it. And listen to the HS when he reveals it to you. If the HS tells you it is not from Him, then you will need discernment to know what to do with the information. Sometimes it may only be for your own edification. Many people can give you pointers on how to discern, but the basic "tool" is still the Holy Spirit. He is more interested in this issue then you ever were or will be. He will not let you down, I promise, if you are honestly wanting to know the TRUTH!ginnyrose

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lilrevpj Mar 1, 2006

I need not defend Miss Kuhlman's ministry, nor Benny Hinn's, but I will say in correction, Miss Kuhlman was not part of the Word of Faith movement - ever, that was not her doctrine. Also, there were several medically verified miracles - see Dr. Casdorph's books (who was at one time one of her greatest critics) as well as at least 5 other books with testimonies all medically verified. I have personally communicated with people healed by the power of God in both Miss Kuhlman's and Benny Hinn's ministries - all of these can be medically verified as being out right miracles - and these were last resort cases, people having no hope. I myself have been healed (being a last resort as well) and could never be convinced that it is not real, regardless of my testimony - to each his own and I'll leave it at that.

sermonindex Mar 1, 2006

I will say in correction, Miss Kuhlman was not part of the Word of Faith movement - ever, that was not her doctrine.WOF was not popularized until the mid 1900's, and so it can be said at the outset she was not part of WOF. However, her teachings were very WOF'ish, and in later years was surrounded by those who have become very prominent in that movement and claim her as one of their heroes.Also, there were several medically verified miracles - see Dr. Casdorph's books (who was at one time one of her greatest critics) as well as at least 5 other books with testimonies all medically verified.There are books telling just the opposite. In his book Healing: A Doctor in Search of a Miracle, Dr. William Nolen dedicates an entire chapter to his experiences investigating Kuhlman healing crusades. Though sympathetic to Kuhlman as a person, Nolen was unable to document medically even one case of physical healing, though large numbers of them were claimed. At the time of his investigation, Dr. Nolen was chief of surgery at Meeker County Hospital in Litchfield, Minnesota. Well-known researcher Kurt Koch followed up on 28 cases of “healing” that were provided to him by the Kuhlman organization and concluded that “there is no one clear case of healing from an organic disease.”I myself have been healed (being a last resort as well) and could never be convinced that it is not real, regardless of my testimony.If you have been healed then I praise God! God does heal. But Benny Hinn does not. You were healed by God, not a crook and phoney.Someone is bound to ask about her adultry, and I will only mention the following facts because it shows that she was not only Biblically disqualified from the ministry she was in because she was a woman, but also because of her lifestyle and family life. (Read Titus and I & II Tim for qualifications for Church leadership) While pastoring the Denver Revival Tabernacle in the mid-1930s, Kuhlman became romantically involved with married evangelist Burroughs Waltrip, who subsequently left his wife and two children and married her. Kuhlman and Waltrip were romantically involved for two or three years prior to their marriage. Waltrip’s first wife was left alone to raise her two sons and to pay off her husband’s debts. He did not return even for a visit. A few years after her illicit marriage, Kuhlman left Waltrip, saying God had commanded her to leave him and to preach.Krispy

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roadsign Mar 1, 2006

I follow Apollos, I follow Paul.... I follow... Do these words sound familiar? It is not always the faults of our favorite leaders themselves, but whether we are relying on those people more than on the Lord. Many seekers are running here and there after man (or woman). And while God may be using them (as he used Paul, Kuhlman and many others), seekers are reluctant to trust God himself. So, I say, examine your hearts. Is God sufficient for you? Is the word sufficient? Do you think that the SPIRIT can guide you? Or do you need a mediator? Do you really trust God? Do you seek HIM with all your heart? Jesus taught that we cannot put new wine into old wine skins. Often our questions betray the hidden desire to have spiritual gifts, disernment, at the same time as cling to our old wineskins. But we will never find what we want. It just won't fit!!! If we are never hearing from God - ie receiving divine enlightenment, we need to ask why. What cherished beliefs (rather, unbelief) are we clinging to? Are we wanting to be in control? Perhaps we are pre-determnined how God can and can't work. -- Be sure God has a way of turning over our "tables" - and ignoring our pre-sets. And he may use the most surprising people to help answer our questions. Diane

sermonindex Mar 1, 2006

Be sure God has a way of turning over our "tables" - and ignoring our pre-sets. And if we don't see it, maybe it's because we don't believe it can be so. Uhh.. not when the pre-sets are scripture. He is God, He changes not.Krispy

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PassingThru Mar 2, 2006

Uhh.. not when the pre-sets are scripture. He is God, He changes not.I think the following passage from Acts 10 lines up with what Diane was trying to say :-And there came a voice to him, Rise, Peter; kill, and eat. But Peter said, Not so, Lord; for I have never eaten any thing that is common or unclean. And the voice spake unto him again the second time, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.Interesting, the Gentiles were finally accepted when they were heard speaking in tongues. Peter obviously had no doubts as to the "quality" of their tongues.From the same passage of scripture :-Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.Despite Catholics holding to a doctrine that contains heresies (in which a lot of Protestant denominations aren't falling behind...), there are perhaps Catholics who fit the bill, and as such it may please God to baptise them with his Spirit and give them the gift of tongues.PassingThru

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warriorofgod Mar 2, 2006

but if there are catholics laying hands on other catholics to recieve the holy spirit and they in turn glorify Mary or the mass, then i have a problem with the whole thing.

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warriorofgod Mar 2, 2006

As i said in another thread:I have much to say but i'm afraid I've run out of time here at chicago. Its time to go back to england. Hopefully i get to speak with you guys once again. When i get internet i will be sure to pop back in. Thank you for the info.

sermonindex Mar 2, 2006

Yeah, well I have much to say too.Did you read the story about me finding my daughter ???Well, I told her I couldn't come to her wedding !One guess why ?Can you imagine that I almost lost her for good over that ? I almost did and was willing to for THE TRUTH !So one can say what they want about compromising, but when you cry and pray for 29 years to find your daughter and then you fight to win her to Christ, and then you lose her to a "theologian" and then fight in love and in dead earnest till the day was set and then sit here knowing that your only child was getting married and you weren't there and cry till your sick .... go ahead and judge and I hope you get a chance to read this before you get on your plane.Sorry, I'm just pecular but at least I'm upfront.And I knew all along that MANY are speaking of Mary when they speak in their 'tongues' but I hope against hope for some of them.God's speed.

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ravin Mar 2, 2006

Well here's a thought....Acts 16:16,1716.And it came to pass, as we went to prayer, a certain damsel possesed with a spirit of divination met us,which brought her masters much gain by soothsaying:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, These men are the servants of the most high God, which shew unto us the way of salvation. Then there are other verses saying he shall appear as an angle of light. is God showing us that the devil will use what ever means to mislead and misdirect the faithful.remember the devil used scripture against our Saviour. But we must remember to answer as our Lord did "As it is written".

sermonindex Mar 2, 2006

God Bless you ravin.Thank you always for your posts.Regards to your Mrs.

sermonindex Mar 2, 2006

Look, here is the bottom line. The Catholic Church does not teach the Bible. They do not teach Biblical salvation. Most of it's practices are blasphemous.Can a Catholic person be saved? Absolutely. But only if they come to Christ as the Bible prescribes, and not as the Catholic Church does. We can not come to Christ on our own terms, we must come to Him on His terms. Once they come to Christ, they need time to grow. Once they have grown and learned what it truly means to be saved, they are in a position where there is a choice to make... seperate from the Catholic Church and no longer participate in it's blasphemous practices as scripture commands, or stay.I believe if they stay then they are in disobedience, but I will stop short of judging their salvation. Thats not my job.The Catholic Church is a counterfeit religion. The tongues movement in the Catholic Church is a counterfeit movement. Satan knows that most Christians are Biblically ignorant, and will judge things not according to scripture (cuz they dont know scripture!) but rather will judge according to human reason. "Oh, that person speaks in tongues! Thats miraculous! It must be of God!"Someone calls themselves Christian, we just accept it at face value. Mormons call themselves Christians, and there is now a movement among evangelicals to come together in ecumenical services with Mormons.JW's call themselves Christians, and most real Christians dont know their Bibles well enough to even have a 5 minute discussion with a JW without getting confused about scripture. What a pathetic state we're in.There are a lot of questions on here lately about how do we discern if someone is really speaking Holy Spirit tongues. Discernment... and that comes from two sources. There is the gift of discernment, which comes from the Holy Spirit. And there is Biblical discernment, which comes from constant everyday studying of God's Word... something most believers dont do because Survivor is on tonight! Let's face it folks, most believers know what shows are on TV when, but come Sunday morning Joe-believer cant find his Bible because he cant remember where he left it last Sunday. That's 85% of "Christians" in the US.And I believe God isnt going to give us the gift of discernment if we dont first gain Biblical discernment. Thats like asking your boss for a raise on your first day of work.The Catholic Church is a false religion. If tongues is sanctioned by the Catholic Church then it's a pretty safe bet it's a false tongue thats being spoken. Tongues are used among some Mormons... is someone prepared to tell me that thats a real tongue?As for Christians in the Catholic Church, do any exist? Absolutely. Should they stay? No. Scripture NEVER tells us to be joined together with darkness. On the contrary, it commands us to seperate from it. Seperation is never preached anymore because it not politically correct... but it is an extremely Biblical doctrine that needs to be preached.Why seperate? Is it hateful? No, it's for our protection. Granted, some people take it too far and seperate from others that they dont need to seperate from... but the opposite is much more prevelant today. We dont seperate from anything! Oh we love everyone, and we want to embrace everyone... even if they dont preach salavation.What seperation is NOT is to avoid someone all together who does not believe as we do. Of course we should maintain relationships with unsaved people... how else do we win them to Christ? But we dont win them to Christ by joining hands with them in worship or so-called "Christian" unity.This is not rocket science folks. To tie this all together... One can not have spiritual gifts unless they are first saved. One can not be saved and also a believer in Catholic doctrine at the same time. Therefore, if someone who is a follower of the Catholic Church, and believes in the Catholic Church's doctrines of salvation, is speaking on tongues... it is not a legitimate gift of tongues. It is a counterfeit brought on either humanly or satanically.If a Catholic is a true believer in Jesus Christ, and is saved according to the Bible, and displays the gift of tongues... then it can be discerned that it is legit. However, as they grow in Christ and in Biblical understanding, you should see them seperate from the RCC. If they dont, then their is either a maturity problem or a disobedience problem going on, and we need to leave that up to the Lord to deal with them over that.Pretty cut and dry to me. Sorry if I seem a might fired up this morning. God's building up a fire in me lately.Krispy

sermonindex Mar 2, 2006

Cut and dry and on spot. I fully agree. I got some emotional earlier, because of what happened "right after" my daughter drove all the way down here from N.J. (12 hours by herself) to be Baptised by my Pastor friend here and just so I could be there for her baptism by immersion, after working two years to get her saved, this "theologian" guy 'immediately' got her brainwashed, literally.She was 'saved' because before he finally did it to her, it took him a year of constant work, but before he did finally convince her his way, she and I would be on the phone every day talking The Word and she always come back with Right On answers. She knew Him.Anyhow ... sorry to have gotten emotional there, but you are absolutely right but I don't like being pushed into cutting off "Potentials" with folks. I see all folks as Potentials. And like I posted a page back ... "it ain't over till it's over."I'd like to repeat this part of your post, though the whole of it was right on....Quote:Krispy wrote"There are a lot of questions on here lately about how do we discern if someone is really speaking Holy Spirit tongues. Discernment... and that comes from two sources. There is the gift of discernment, which comes from the Holy Spirit. And there is Biblical discernment, which comes from constant everyday studying of God's Word... something most believers dont do because Survivor is on tonight! Let's face it folks, most believers know what shows are on TV when, but come Sunday morning Joe-believer cant find his Bible because he cant remember where he left it last Sunday. That's 85% of "Christians" in the US.And I believe God isnt going to give us the gift of discernment if we dont first gain Biblical discernment. Thats like asking your boss for a raise on your first day of work." {end quote}I trust Him in this Krispy and the only time he'll hide someone's true nature from me or how they are 'working', is because He wants me to communicate with them in innocense of mind or another way for a while. But He always come through in the nick of time to keep me protected.That protection/discernment you defined so well is for all of us .... THANK GOD !!!Shalom~Shalom 8-) Thanks to RonB also.