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Who is glorified by "tongues?"

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020406saved Feb 28, 2006

Why would God want members of the congregation to stand up or speak out and bring attention to themselves during His time of worship? Why would God want to distract someone who might not expect or understand these "tongues" if they are new Christians, or even worse, not yet saved? I just don't understand the need for it. With exception to missionaries in unknown lands confronted by unknown dialects, why would God need his church to speak in a jibber-jabber language?I come from a Baptist church where the congregation (myself included) will verbally acknowledge the Lord's message after various points in the preacher's sermon. We say things like Amen, that's right, uh-huh etc... These are words of understanding and encouragement to the pastor, and everyone (no matter who they are or where they are from) knows what Amen means. So I guess I have to question the heart and true intentions of someone who brings the focus of worship to themselves when ultimately Jesus Christ deserves all of our praise.1 Chronicles 16:25 "For great is the Lord and most worthy of praise; He is to be feared above all gods."

sermonindex Feb 28, 2006

Welcome... dont be afraid to say whats on your mind! :-) ...lolI am NO defender of the Charismatic Movement, or tongues. However, I do believe God's Word does not show where tongues would end with the 1st century. I see very explicit instructions for how tongues is to be used in the church written by Paul, and therefore do not think that God would waste His time having Paul write that if it wasnt for future instruction. Everything else in the NT is relevent for today, right? Why not tongues?I do not believe tongues must be present when a person is baptised in the Holy Spirit. Scripture does not support that, and many Spirit filled believers I know do not speak in tongues. I believe most of what is going on in the church concerning tongues is nonsense. I've was around it all the time when I was first saved... and I can still copy it today. Note the word copy.But I do not believe tongues has ceased. I believe it is greatly abused.Paul gave instructions on how tongues was to be used in church, and whether you like it or not, he apparently thought it ok for tongues to be used in the service so long as there was an interpretor. No interpretater... sit down and shut up.We may not always like what scripture says, especially when it doesnt make sense to our human minds... but if it's in the Book, ya gotta go with it.Krispy

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martymill Feb 28, 2006

Hi brother,I believe 1 Corinthians 14 was given to us to answer this very question.Blessings,Martin

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020406saved Feb 28, 2006

Where is this made relevant to praise and worship? I understand that during the petecost people of different origins heard their native tongues, but where does it say in the Bible that a new language (one that is not written nor widely understood) should be used to worship and praise him; whether it be in private or not.With all of the differing opinions regarding this subject, why is it not considered a stumbling block to others? I mean not to offend my brothers and sisters, but only to understand them.

sermonindex Feb 28, 2006

Welcome 020406saved. Nothing like coming on with your first post being a Bang ! Ha.Anyway, welcome to SI. Martin, that was a very wise answer.Brevity is not my gift but apparently it's yours and you gave God's Word which is also a refreshing answer.Lord Bless all.Annie

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RobertW Feb 28, 2006

So I guess I have to question the heart and true intentions of someone who brings the focus of worship to themselves when ultimately Jesus Christ deserves all of our praise.To really understand this topic we have to rewind the tape back a long ways- clear to the churches of the New Testament. Here is an awesome thought to ponder; "What is it about the way we conduct our 'services' that makes a vital aspect of Christianity such as tongues or any gift of the Spirit no longer important or even unwelcome and begrudged?" God created the Tongues of scripture; not man. Maybe it is because man has created the 'services' that what God created no longer fits? The reality is, when things are functioning rightly near everyone in the service will have 'something' to contribute to that meeting. The one drawing attention to themselves is the guy behind the pulpit (and often that is me as I often preach). So the attention upon ones-self is not the issue if God has elected to use that individual at the moment. Think about it a minute; what part of a 'service' is someone not attracting attention to themselves? Is it when the MC gets up and opens? How about when the praise and worship leader starts leading? What about the offering taker and later the preacher? What about the person praying over the service (prayer leader)? So why in the midst of all this would 'tongues' get singled out? Consider this also, 'Greek' was the 'English' of the New Testament times. Why would tongues be needed any 'more' or 'less' in the first century than now? Were there really all sorts of folk that needed a tongue in Corinth? Was that a missionary effort? That was a well established church. And if Paul was speaking all over the Greek speaking world, why did he thank God that he spake with tongues "more than ye all"? We don't like anything that makes us look foolish do we? Its nothing new. If God had used spiritual sign language we had shunned it also. Why? Because it does not add to our credibility in the eyes of people and forces us to allow God to be God and we don't like that. We want order and structure and smooth sailing. We give lipservice to God being God and for a pretense offer it all as worship. :-?I have known of many people to give a message in tongues in a service and I can say with relative certainty that it goes against anything the flesh would ever want to do. Sing like Frank Sinatra, yes, (I speak as a fool) but give a nasty old message in them there tongues? The beauty of the gift is so far beyond us that the enemy would do anything to make that gift to look foolish or cast it in a bad light. God made it and He gave it and it is a good gift. But like Peter and the sheet, we want to repulse at what God has blessed. I can almost hear those words... that, call NOT thou common or unclean! ;-)I should wish never to scoff at any of the things of God. No matter how I was raised or how bad something about Him or His provision 'strikes me'. It is a cross for most people to give a message in tongues in my circles. And much of the reason it is- is because of the feelings so articulately expressed in the original question. And because of this and other reasons, we are loosing Pentecostalism as it was once known in my parts and we are smack in the AoG and PCG state (Missouri). :-(God Bless,-Robert

sermonindex Feb 28, 2006

I'm dragging this over to the other 'tongues' thread ... this is Classic Robert. :-)

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warriorofgod Feb 28, 2006

Hey Robert, Can you explain why the catholics are speaking in tongues if its a sign from God? You seem to support the subject and are very knowledgable. Why are Catholics now implementing charasmatic gifts in their service such as tongues to increase their memebership?

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RobertW Feb 28, 2006

Hey Robert, Can you explain why the catholics are speaking in tongues if its a sign from God? You seem to support the subject and are very knowledgable. Why are Catholics now implementing charasmatic gifts in their service such as tongues to increase their memebership?I was on a train in 1993 bound for New Orleans and sat by a woman who was a Catholic/Charismatic/New-Ager. I don't know if she spoke with tongues or not, but it was then that I realized that the enemy can take hold of things and drag them them through all sorts of madness. Just because something is trying to be operated by a certain group we may esteem rightly or not as being of God- it can in no way invalidate the gift of tongues.I heard Spurgeon once gave an illustration (someone correct me here if you have all the details) of the Devil using his latest means with which to DAMN the souls of men; he was going to preach the Gospel on the street corner without UNCTION. Tongues are no better without unction than the Gospel itself. There are literally multitudes of groups over the centuries that spoke in some sort of glossolalic speech; but the question is, what was the spirit behind it? Was it the Holy Spirit or another spirit? I had a person walk up to me the other day and offer me a $20 bill. Looked like a $20 bill all right as it was printed with one of the latest color laser printers. I flipped it over and it was a white sheet of paper on the back. They got a good laugh. But what they didn't know is that Federal Law requires color printer manufactures to print into the images it prints a faint yellow seriel number of the machine it was printed on. If you have the right equipment, you can discern the number; and hence its origin. The mass counterfeits of tongues may get past the unsuspecting; but they don't fool the Holy Spirit and when God directs that it be discerned as false, it can be made known. This is why the full operation of the Spirit and several spiritual folk need to be involved in these things as not to run aground with fleshly or demonic counterfeits. As for why they are 'using' this gift? Maybe they have seen the booming growth of Pentecostalism over the last 100 years and thing its the 'tongues'. The reality is- its just a matter of wanting God to be God again and the Holy Spirit to be front and center. In a generation that has made the Bible into a system of proof texts designed to take a person step by step into a 'spiritual' experience (being 'saved') with as little real input from the Holy Spirit as possible, we are desperate for a return to real, bonified, movings of the Holy Spirit. The problem is, folk just refuse to allow Him to assume His place. But why? What are they afraid of?

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warriorofgod Mar 1, 2006

So once again we are left in the dark because we can discern, with biblical help, all sorts of falseness but we can't even tell the difference between true and false tongues. They all sound the same to me. There are wasy to spot a fake dollar bill but for some reason no one can tell the difference between all the tongues in the world. Since there is no distinction, the whole thing is obsolete. As i have said before, you might think tongues help prayer, revelation, or even healing, but its the meditation on God is what counts. Benny Hinn thinks tongues helps in healing and we all know he's fake.

sermonindex Mar 1, 2006

Warrior, I can't understand your posts anymore.Please forgive how that 'may' sound, but I don't mean that in a disrespectful or cruel way at all, but you seem obsessed with this topic.Out of your thirty something posts, you'd have to count how many involved this question.We are NOT left in the "dark" and Robert and I have answered you Scripturally many times now.The woman who followed after Paul and the Brothers, was "saying the truth", in that she seemed to not be doing or saying anything wrong ... especially if she were here in our day and age ... she "promoted Paul and Silas's, etc.s ministry and calling" ... , Act 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, "These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation" ..... but she had a spirit of divination and Paul put up with her for a many days, then finally tired of it, as he DISCERNED the spirit in her ... though what she was saying sounded right and may have even gained him some followers of those she worked for soothsaying ... but nonetheless Paul at his own risk, cast the spirit out of her.Now a days, I doubt she'd be "discerned" because too too many are trusting in their own brains and I'm afraid that may be the case here in your not receiving the same answer for two days now.Or some wouldn't want to discern her for fear of what happened to Paul for exposing her false spirit and casting it out, (they laid many stripes upon them and they cast them into prison), they make some excuse for "using bad for good" and "let's not judge" or whatever is common in the compromising Church ... but Paul did not compromise and was not "left in the dark".To debate Evolutionists is one thing, but either you believe in all of the gifts, including the discerning of spirits or just plain Holy Spirit discernment or you don't believe in the gifts and God's protection over His own Sheep in the face of counterfeit "anythings".I make a case of this here with you brother, only because that is the most needed gift this Church of 'these' days needs, is Discernment and you are in essence belittling it.In these end days, the counterfeit will look and does look, exactly like the real thing for the MAJORITY of the inhabitants of this earth ... so without leaning on and "trusting" the Holy Spirit for Discernment ... you're up the creek if you trust intellect alone.With all well meanings brother and His love,Annie

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deltadom Mar 1, 2006

I am sometimes glorified by tounges if I have no words in english

sermonindex Mar 1, 2006

Preach it brother :-D !1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also.

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dohzman Mar 1, 2006

ICor 14:15. Reguardless its all a matter of faith, what so ever isnot of faith doesn't please God. The experience of tongues didn't lose its importance through the Book of Acts, so I guess you could say it must have been at the very least, some what important to God the Holy Spirit as a manifestation, also people get so bent out of shape over tongues they miss the real beauty of that manifest gift," What is that beauty?" Glad you asked, its evidence of the resurrected Christ in His ascended position at the right hand of the Father :-)

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020406saved Mar 1, 2006

I don't understand how you can defend speaking in tongues by quoting a verse without the surrounding chapter. 1 Corinthians 14 1Follow the way of love and eagerly desire spiritual gifts, especially the gift of prophecy. 2For anyone who speaks in a tongue does not speak to men but to God. Indeed, no one understands him; he utters mysteries with his spirit. 3But everyone who prophesies speaks to men for their strengthening, encouragement and comfort. 4He who speaks in a tongue edifies himself, but he who prophesies edifies the church. 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. 6Now, brothers, if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction?if I come to you and speak in tongues, what good will I be to you, unless I bring you some revelation or knowledge or prophecy or word of instruction? 7Even in the case of lifeless things that make sounds, such as the flute or harp, how will anyone know what tune is being played unless there is a distinction in the notes? 8Again, if the trumpet does not sound a clear call, who will get ready for battle? 9Unless you speak intelligible words with your tongue, how will anyone know what you are saying? You will just be speaking into the air. 10Undoubtedly there are all sorts of languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning. 11If then I do not grasp the meaning of what someone is saying, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me. 12So it is with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, try to excel in gifts that build up the church. 13For this reason anyone who speaks in a tongue should pray that he may interpret what he says. 14For if I pray in a tongue, my spirit prays, but my mind is unfruitful. 15So what shall I do? I will pray with my spirit, but I will also pray with my mind; I will sing with my spirit, but I will also sing with my mind. 16If you are praising God with your spirit, how can one who finds himself among those who do not understand say "Amen" to your thanksgiving, since he does not know what you are saying? 17You may be giving thanks well enough, but the other man is not edified 18I thank God that I speak in tongues more than all of you. 19But in the church I would rather speak five intelligible words to instruct others than ten thousand words in a tongue. 20Brothers, stop thinking like children. In regard to evil be infants, but in your thinking be adults. 21In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord 22Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers. 23So if the whole church comes together and everyone speaks in tongues, and some who do not understand or some unbelievers come in, will they not say that you are out of your mind? 24But if an unbeliever or someone who does not understand comes in while everybody is prophesying, he will be convinced by all that he is a sinner and will be judged by all, 25and the secrets of his heart will be laid bare. So he will fall down and worship God, exclaiming, "God is really among you!" It is obvious to me that Paul is being clear as crystal about this so-called gift. It is prophecy that Paul recognizes as a a desirable gift. Try to excel in gifts that build up the church, not one that edifies only one unless there are revelations, and what more can you reveal than is already in His Living Word. He would rather speak 5 words in the vernacular than 10,000 in an nintelligible self-fulfilling language. He cannot pray in tongues because it is unfruitful to his mind and vice versa.

sermonindex Mar 1, 2006

The verses preceding vs.s 18 and 19 are not "canceled out" by 18 and 19.And verse 15 is the clincer here ....1Co 14:15 What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also. 1Co 14:16 Else when thou shalt bless with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth the room of the unlearned say Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth not what thou sayest? 1Co 14:17 For thou verily givest thanks well, but the other is not edified. 1Co 14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than ye all: 1Co 14:19 Yet in the church I had rather speak five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue. Do you have any idea how many threads we've had on tongues on the Forum since it was first launched in 2002 ?I don't know if you've even read the one that is presently still up here on the Lounge, but there's all sorts of good posts on there too, so I don't quite understand yet this other one.You won't change our minds and we won't change yours, and I have no mind to, after posting the greek and others posting excellent posts on that other thread.It's a Free country friend. You can live without tongues and any other gifts of the spirit that you don't want. That's called 'freewill' in some books.God Bless 020406saved.Annie

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KingJimmy Mar 1, 2006

this so-called gift...So-called gift? Excuse me, but Paul calls it a gift. What's to defend about speaking in tongues? Did you forget to read:1 Cor 14:5 I would like every one of you to speak in tongues, but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues, unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified.You can't use 1 Cor 14 to bash tongues, when Paul does no such thing. In fact, he encourages such. In fact, if you discourage speaking in tongues, you are against what Paul taught:1 Cor 14:39 Therefore, my brethren, desire earnestly to prophesy, and do not forbid to speak in tongues

sermonindex Mar 1, 2006

Benny Hinn thinks tongues helps in healing and we all know he's fake.Benny Hinn is a fake? Oh man... I wish someone had told me that before I sent my tax return to him!! Dang!! ;-) Krispy

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RobertW Mar 1, 2006

As i have said before, you might think tongues help prayer, revelation, or even healing, but its the meditation on God is what counts. Benny Hinn thinks tongues helps in healing and we all know he's fake.What is meditation on God? Would this be like transcendental meditation? Many false religions meditate. Shall we throw out meditating upon God because of this also just because we don't know what god is being focused on?

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RobertW Mar 1, 2006

He cannot pray in tongues because it is unfruitful to his mind and vice versa.This is because his spirit is praying. And this is the stumbling block upon which you stumble, you have deduced that the mind must understand or the gift is useless.

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