Debating with Witnesses

My sister has been attending the Jehovah's Witness churches for a few years since Christian churches rejected her and made her unwelcome.She wants me to talk to a witness so I can understand why she is going there, but I don't want to until I have myself totally on firm ground Biblically.I am not the most well-versed in scripture, but I am trying. I need some help in this area: I am looking for verses in the Bible that can be used in conversation with a witness to prove Christianity over the slightly altered Witnesses.I hope that makes sense. Thank you, and God bless,Sol

Many JW's are pretty well versed in Scripture and the Watchtower has many publications that script their replies to your objections to their beliefs. They are 'programmed' in a sense and they can be tough nuts to crack.A JW will tell you that they can't be assured of eternal bliss and all the places in heaven are already taken. Remind them that that doesn't sound much like Good News to you. Let them know the good news, that our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ completed the work of salvation on a cross at Calvary. The JW will have to counter with his/her good works. Put your Savior down against their savior to see which one has the perfect Savior. The JW's will use the name "Jesus Christ" as their Savior because they can't deny that something happened at Calvary but, the perfect work of Jesus Christ there is impugned by their counterfeit.The Bible speaks of His work as a substitutionary sacrifice (Isaiah 53:5,6) on our behalf, and any law of substitution states that when a substitute comes into play, the original player must leave the field and have no more active involvement. When it comes to our salvation we have to get off the field, it is His perfect work alone, if we must add to it, it is no longer perfect.Also, here is a link to an excellent article that will help you in discussing the deity of Christ with them...Deity of ChristIn Christ,Ron

The JW system is not a 'slightly altered' but is a 'major revision' of orthodox Christian faith. They hold that their system is the 'rediscovered' and authentic version of Christianity and much of their labour goes to proving that everyone else is wrong. The difficulty in countering their arguments is that they do have carefully scripted answers to almost any specific criticism of their system. Their theology is just about 'water-tight' for those on the 'inside'.I usually ask them who they are... 'are you Jehovah's Witnesses?' when they agree I simply say 'I am a Jesus Witness, would you like to know the difference?' I then point out that... “But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.” (Acts 1:8 KJVS)...Jesus said quite specifically that when men and women receive the Holy Spirit they become '"Jesus' Witnesses".The term "Jehovah's Witnesses' comes from God's word to the people of Israel.Is. 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and my servant whom I have chosen; that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. Is. 43:12 I have declared, and I have saved, and I have showed; and there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith Jehovah, and I am God. Is. 44:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have I not declared unto thee of old, and showed it? and ye are my witnesses. Is there a God besides me? yea, there is no Rock; I know not any. These references are from the ASV which used the name Jehovah whereas the KJV and most other version hide the proper name of God by using the word 'LORD' in upper case letters. We only have the word 'Jehovah' 3 times in our KJV (Ex 6:3; Psa 83:18; Is 12:2; 26:4) whereas the name is actually used almost 7000 times in the Old Testament.So the ancient people of Israel were the 'original and authentic' Jehovah's Witnesses. The first of the KJV references above is a real key here. Read it in its context and you will see that "Jehovah" was the name by which God introduced Himself to the nation of Israel. It is the unique 'covenant' name and from the time of Sinai the people were the 'people of Jehovah'. Their Sinai laws were given, partly, to mark our a way of life in which they would be known as 'Jehovah's People'. They broke their covenant and, as a nation, failed to be 'Jehovah's Witnesses'.Christ Himself fulfilled all the expectations of being Jehovah's Witness. Israel were the original "Jehovah's Witnesses" but Christ was the last "Jehovah's Witness". Since that time all who have claimed to be "Jehovah's Witnesses" have been frauds. It is no accident that the proper name "Jehovah" never appeared in any of the New Testament documents. Modern JW's will tell you that it was once there but has been removed; there is absolutely no evidence for this. They have invented this piece of history to support their views.If you get into a discussion with well-trained JW's they will contest all the above, but if your sister is still only on the edges she might be willing to listen to the above evidence.

Two great resources for JW information http://www.bible.ca/jw.htm and http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/ (down near the bottom of the page is a section on Cults). You may find Walter Martin's audio messages on Blue Letter Bible to be foundational.I used to have a Witness come to my job to try to set up days to "talk" about the Bible. I used to meet with her and one of her partners when we had a chance. My goal was to win them to Christ by showing them the contradictions in their doctrine.As the other posts have said, you do have to be firmly grounded in the Bible, because Witnesses carry along their "Reasoning from the Scriptures" booklet, so even if they aren't prepared for some of the things we bring up, that book has "scripted" responses to just about anything that you can think of. (Thanks, Krispy!)So your motives have to be pure, which I'm sure that they are, and your understanding of God's word has to be strong. Also, when you come in contact with a JW, you have to be "prayed up" as we say. The Devil will be using them to try to sift you as wheat. In order for your words, even straight scripture, to penetrate, you need the Holy Spirit to empower your speaking, They are brainwashed and often deaf to anything they didn't learn at the Kingdom Hall.I could talk for a long time about Jehovah's Witnesses. I won't say that I'm a cult expert, or even a Bible expert, but I have had many run-ins with Witnesses and have done plenty of studying in order to show myself approved armed and ready to bring them to the truth that is in the true Christ. If you want to talk, feel free to email me. I'd be happy to help you get ready to "earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints" (Jude 3).I'm praying for you and your sister now. May the Lord use to to glorify Him!Your brother,D.

Let me make an addendum.When speaking with a Jehovah's Witness, the King James is superior to the New International or New American Standard versions. Whether you like the KJV or not, you will find that the NIV and NASB actually are closer translations to the Witnesses' own New World Translation.That means that there are some points that you cannot make with the NIV or NASB that you can successfully make with the KJV. One vital example is 1 Timoth 3:16, "God was manifest in the flesh." The NIV and NASB do not use the word God to describe Jesus Christ in this verse.Check out http://av1611.com/kjbp/charts/various.html

krispy and nacl:thank you for your help. I do want to say here what I have told my sister, that I will not speak to them until I actually know the Bible. I feel if I went now, I would be not ready spiritually, and they could really influence me - so I am staying away.I will research those links and look through the Bible more.Thanks again,Sol

Solmartin, I think the posters so far have given you some pretty solid advice. I agree with Krispy also about waiting untill you are better grounded, as you have also said.I wanted to mention also that a wonderfull study is a comparison of the varied attributes and names of God, primarily found in the Old Testament, that are also applied to the person and work of our Lord Jesus Christ.Perhaps more than any other quality, the attribute of Holy is applied to God in the Old Testament. We can see that this same thing is applied to His Christ.For instance:And it shall come to pass in that day, that the remnant of Israel, and such as are escaped of the house of Jacob, shall no more again stay upon him that smote them; but shall stay upon the Lord, the Holy One of Israel, in truth.compare with... But ye denied the Holy One and the Just, and desired a murderer to be granted unto you;Our great God is also called Savior, as in Isaiah 43.. For I am the Lord thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee. I, even I, am the Lord; and beside me there is no saviour.and compare in Titus with.. Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;Here's one that ties several together in Is 54For thy Maker is thine husband; the Lord of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.Maker(John 1:3)Husband(2 Cor 11:2)Lord(numerous)Holy One(Acts 3:14)Redeemer(Luke 1:68 and Luke 24:21 and redemption in general)God(1John 5:20)Praise God there is sooo much more to this study also.The truth of the Diety of Jesus Christ is so wonderfull and we do well to take it into our spirits and rejoice in it. It is truely glorious(John 1:14). I do not believe through my own experience with JW's that debating is fruifull or even really what is at issue. I have made grievous errors in dealing with JW's in the past with the mind to prove something. And I regret that. Also, InThelIght, I loved this statementWhen it comes to our salvation we have to get off the field, it is His perfect work alone, if we must add to it, it is no longer perfect.It is that word 'add' that makes the difference doesn't it?Philologos,The JW system is not a 'slightly altered' but is a 'major revision' of orthodox Christian faith.Right on there. You made some good points also about thier having a prepared response. I have been noticing that lately. There are plenty of JW's here in Philadlephia and they're always busy unfortunately :-( Take care everyone.

The Jw stand on two legs with their false teachings,One leg they say their is one God. the other Leg they say jesus is a lesser god . they try to break apart trinty,in doing so they are believeing in more than one God.there for their house is divide and can not stand on one leg of truth./ you must have a firm grasp of who the Lord is! and the Trinty,or God Head.they will pick it apart by twisting scripture and using (their interpretion of hebrew and greek.)their is the key word 2peter1:20Knowing this first that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretion.

A good verse for JW:1 John 5:12 "He that hath the Son hath life; and he that hath not the Son of God hath not life."Remember Krisp, we will see them, but it will be across the great gulf. I used to be uncomfortable telling unbelievers, 'see you later.' But then I rememeber that I will see them at the judgment. I just pray that we warn them enough that we won't have their blood on our hands.

In the orthodox christianity the diety of Jesus is explained in The king james John1:1,In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.here is what translated in the new world translation published by the Jehovah's witnesses john1:1in the beginning was the word, and the word was with god and the word was a god.what the difference between this two tranlation? they twist the word of God to fit their false teachings, they seprate the word of God from God,making them two god's and by adding (word was a god) apart from God.satan tries to de-thron Jesus,thur this false teaching,by attacking the Diety of Our LORD Christ.who is God became flesh.

I injured my foot this week meaning that today i couldn't go out open airing, what does this have to with JW's u ask well.... u guessed it this morning 2 of em rang my doorbell :-D :-D we discussed the 144,000, the jews, the new heaven and the new earth and drum roll ....... the Deity of our Lord Jesus i found one of them (the elder) to be well versed in scripture even 1 john 5:7.But and here he got a bit concerned i turned in the Bible (mine not his) to Hebrews 1:8. lets have a look at this wonderful verse hey.. But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever: a scepter of righteousness is the scepter of thy kingdom.utterly mavelous!!! isn't it ? when read in context it's the Father talking to Jesus and calling Him God, in fact the whole of Hebrews 1 is wonderful in showing how Jesus is not an angel as they say.Praise the Lord because as they were talking to me they weren't trying to get at anyone else, in fact i think after leaving they went home and gave up the door knocking because of time.So i didn't get to street preach but i did get to witness.. to some witnesses lol :-P matt

Praise be to God Matt! Very good.

I just read through this thread, and see lots of good advise, so I have very little to add. I like Krispy's advice - to avoid a set up for controversy. And Philologos helps you see that they are quite "air tight". "Disucssion about doctrine is likely totally none producive, since you both would have a very specific agenda: to change each other's mind. The real concern that I don't see mentioned yet is your sister. Think about her. Why did she leave her church? Can you minister into THAT? You likely won't be much help by trying to convince her of the errors of the JW. She needs to be ministered to and for now the JW's are doing that for her. Can you not do better - after all, you are her sister and you have Christ. Be her "church", touch her with love. Listen to her, value her, accept her, but don't be like those who have hurt her (whatever way that was). Maybe you need to let her share her pain in a none-judging way. Let me tell you a true story: One day I received a call from a lady asking me if I knew of a cleaning lady. I felt a divine prompting to offer myself, even though that is not what I do. I went to her house, helped her clean and we had lunches together. I found out she was a JW. Ten years prior, she had left her church and joined the JW for the SAME REASON that your sister has. She said to me that the JW were very kind to her, they helped her in her troubles, and they have always been there for her. She added that they would have preferred to clean her house too, and would not have wished that she hired me. (she was being a bit rebellious by hiring me) Anyway, it was a great way for me to learn about her, and share what Christ meant to me through our conversation. Trust me, I did not enter into debate. I could see that she was still burdened down by "law" and needed to be freed in Christ. She was very touched by my Christian testimony and told me so. Please, please, please, be a friend to your sister. Let God help you know what to say to her. If you pull too hard in one way, you only reinforce her move in the wrong direction. Remember the JW's will be standing there to grab her with open arms. May God's angels go with you as you administer your divine calling. Diane

Sol,A ton of excellent advice was given here...however, I did not read all of it so I hope you will excuse me if I am repeating someone else.I have talked a lot with JWs. What I am going to say is an observation I have made based on these experiences. Jw's will use 'Biblical terms' in discussing the scriptures. However, they attach different meanings to them!!! Be AWARE OF THIS. IT IS DANGEROUS!. If you ask them if they are 'born again' they may say 'YES!' (They do here in our part of the state). Then ask them to describe it to you. Herein lies a very important discerning tool: ask them to describe a theological term for you. Having said that, I will NOT use theological terms at all when talking scripture with them. I will use many words if necessary in discussing a concept when one word would normally do. Another thing they will do, is if they get backed into a corner, they will come back next week and teach you, using your language to wiggle out of it!Diane suggested you be friends with you sister. I would guess at this point in time, this may be the easiest thing for you to do.Blessings,ginnyrose

Yesterday I was discussing the idea of Jesus being the Holy One in Scriptures with a Witness who wanted to talk about the trinity. Then we got into Daniel and from there I pointed out to him that Jesus is refered to as the Prince, in capital letter, throughout the book of Daniel. Then I pointed out to him that Jesus it the Prince of princes, again found in the Scripture below. Then I pointed out that Michael the archangle was refered to as a prince and not the "Prince." He was convicted yet still will not give up the traditions of men...See the Scripture below Dan. 8:10 And it grew up to the host of heaven; and it cast down some of the host and some of the stars to the ground, and trampled them. 11 He even exalted himself as high as the Prince of the host; and by him the daily sacrifices were taken away, and the place of His sanctuary was cast down. 12 Because of transgression, an army was given over to the horn to oppose the daily sacrifices; and he cast truth down to the ground. He did all this and prospered. Dan. 8:24 \tHis power shall be mighty, but not by his own power;\tHe shall destroy fearfully,\tAnd shall prosper and thrive;\tHe shall destroy the mighty, and also the holy people. 25 \t“Through his cunning\tHe shall cause deceit to prosper under his rule;\tAnd he shall exalt himself in his heart.\tHe shall destroy many in their prosperity.\tHe shall even rise against the Prince of princes;\tBut he shall be broken without human means. 26 \t“And the vision of the evenings and mornings\tWhich was told is true;\tTherefore seal up the vision,\tFor it refers to many days in the future.” Dan. 9:24 \t“Seventy weeks are determined\tFor your people and for your holy city,\tTo finish the transgression,\tTo make an end of sins,\tTo make reconciliation for iniquity,\tTo bring in everlasting righteousness,\tTo seal up vision and prophecy,\tAnd to anoint the Most Holy. 25 \t“Know therefore and understand,\tThat from the going forth of the command\tTo restore and build Jerusalem\tUntil Messiah the Prince,\tThere shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;\tThe street shall be built again, and the wall,\tEven in troublesome times. 26 \t“And after the sixty-two weeks\tMessiah shall be cut off, but not for Himself;\tAnd the people of the prince who is to come\tShall destroy the city and the sanctuary.\tThe end of it shall be with a flood,\tAnd till the end of the war desolations are determined. 27 \tThen he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week;\tBut in the middle of the week\tHe shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.\tAnd on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,\tEven until the consummation, which is determined,\tIs poured out on the desolate.” Dan. 10:12 Then he said to me, “Do not fear, Daniel, for from the first day that you set your heart to understand, and to humble yourself before your God, your words were heard; and I have come because of your words. 13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me twenty-one days; and behold, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me, for I had been left alone there with the kings of Persia. 14 Now I have come to make you understand what will happen to your people in the latter days, for the vision refers to many days yet to come.” Dan. 10:19 And he said, “O man greatly beloved, fear not! Peace be to you; be strong, yes, be strong!”So when he spoke to me I was strengthened, and said, “Let my lord speak, for you have strengthened me.” Dan. 10:20 Then he said, “Do you know why I have come to you? And now I must return to fight with the prince of Persia; and when I have gone forth, indeed the prince of Greece will come. 21 But I will tell you what is noted in the Scripture of Truth. (No one upholds me against these, except Michael your prince. 1 “Also in the first year of Darius the Mede, I, even I, stood up to confirm and strengthen him.) In ChristJeff

Look for the Book, "The Kingdom of the Cults" it is very good with things of this nature in pointing out the flaws and how they have removed Christ from his throne in their views. It covers a large number of "religions" such as, Catholics, Mormans, Jehovas Witnesses etc.. etc..In Christ,Scroggins

I would also suggest checking out waltermartin.orgWalter is with the Lord now, but he was an authoritative teacher when it comes to the cults. He wrote the book Kingdom Of The Cults which is an excellent reference and research tool. Walter had the entire New Testament memorized in the original greek.

A host of good advice above. All I would like to add is that a few weeks ago an x-JW came to our Bible study. As there was a lot of snow about, there were not many people there so we couldn't do our normal study, so we talked to him for over an hour. He had so many questions and we all answered as best we could. The point I want to make is this... he was in the JW's for 30 years and he got himself out cos he really wanted to know God. Your friend needs PRAYER, and encouragement when you can, so that she will see that there is a God outside of the organisation who loves her and wants to get to know her. Keep praying that God will give her rays of light in the darkness so that if she does want to get to know Him, she will see the error herself and look for the Truth.BTW, Dave (our x-JW) got saved a few weeks later but still has problems. He needs praying for too.

I grew up one of Jehovah's Witnesses. We fell away from the religion in my late teens, and I was saved a few years ago. I must say the religion changes, and as such, it is quite different from what I remember. I would have to say that arguing and debating the bible is about the worst approach anyone can take with someone like a Jehovah's Witness. They are grounded in a firm belief that they know what the bible says. They are taught basically that any religion other than their own is a work of the Devil. I was afraid to enter a church for many years because I thought it was a place controlled by the Devil. Instead, any Christians best defense is Christ, the work Christ does in believers. Every Christian has testimonies of how Christ has been at work in their life. We all have answered prayers and much more. What truly speaks to them is the love of Christ in us. Tell them about the real life experiences you have in your relationship with Christ. Tell them about answered prayers. Let them see your joy and peace. Let them see how Christ has changed your life. And most of all, let them feel loved. This will confound them. They work so hard at being good, and yet, you do it so naturally. They pray continually, but their prayers go unanswered. Despite that they know Jesus died for them, they are still stricken with guilt, and do not know forgiveness. Then, as a living testament of Christ, they will begin to listen. Maybe they won't tell you, but your words will sink into their heart. Also, do not ever worry about your skill level. Jesus said,Luke 21:14-15 (NIV)14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. In Christ,Blake