revelations "who can interprete it"

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crusader Mar 4, 2006

for many years i followed end time preachers who talked about revelations and taught how certain events will happen that will lead us into the end times. i pose this question to the ellect to test these foundations and current misconceptions. 1. is the writings in revelations written in typology or are they literal?2. who can interprete revelations?i was stuck in this area until it was revealed to me. Sometimes though when going against the nucleus belief of many foundations you need to hear confirmation from those that are filled with the holy spirit and can discern the truth when called upon, disregarding pre biased assumptions.i say all this in love

sermonindex Mar 4, 2006

Why don't you just spit it out brother.You've left us hanging now.Do tell what has been "revealed to" you. :-) But in the meantime, I'll answer to the best of my knowledge ... Number 1 question is ... Both.Number 2 question I'll leave for later.His Love to you also !!!Lord Bless.Annie

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crusader Mar 5, 2006

sorry if i have offended people with my question, it wasn't a baited trap but more of seeing expression of other holy spirt filled students. i agree that revelations is of both typology and literal. many different cults in todays world translate the bible in their own beliefs. for example "the mark of the beast" is seen commonly by cults to be a special mark placed on the right hand. revelations is revealed to Holy spirit filled people so how can they come to the same interpretation as some of our preachers today. This does not make sense nor does it sit right with in my spirit! i would like to discus it further in a more deeper expression

sermonindex Mar 5, 2006

Oh no crusader ... I wasn't offended at all, just very curious what you did believe because I love eschatology. I just wanted to get a conversation going together.We have a thread about it here .... Last Days DoctrineNot sure if you'll like it or not, because I don't know how you feel about things quite yet.God Bless you !!!Annie

sermonindex Mar 5, 2006

Also, I should answer your second question too.I believe there is only one way to get any doctrine right.First, you get every Scripture verse(s) from the entire Bible, from the Old to New Testaments and just look at them all. And be sure to look at them in context and with the whole of the Chapters and Books that they're found in.Secondly by John 16:13.God Bless !

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saved_matt Mar 5, 2006

Hi crusader welcome to SI,I'm currently listening to a series on Church history by a bloke called Edgar F. Parkyns, it's absolutely fascinating not only does he teach about church history but also ties it in very well with the book of Revelation, his interpretation is, as far as i know, unique but is very compelling also for example he says the mark of the beast is not a literal mark but a symbol like the one in Ezekiel 9.anyway the series can be found here:Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 Sessionsmay the Lord bless you in your searchmatt

sermonindex Mar 5, 2006

Ezekiel 9 ?That mark was on the ones to be saved. We'll be marked by God on our foreheads to differentiate us in essence as holy unto God. Not a visible seal but nonetheless, that marking similar to the symbolics of Eze. 9 is for the righteous who cry over the sins of the land.The Mark of the Beast is not from God as Eze 9 is.It's a voluntary thing that people will take in order to "buy and sell" so it has to be something having to do with commerce. Also somehow involving some worship of this beast and his "system".That's why, Stick to the Word and not all of these authors when forming important doctrines.In His Love.Annie

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saved_matt Mar 5, 2006

Sorry Annie,I was merely pointing out that this author talks about the mark of the beast in this way. I would reccomend you listen to the series as I find he sticks closer to the Scripture than most. Through listening to it I've been lead to go back and look at various scriptures he has brought up that challenge my own escatalogical beliefs, the best one so far is when he talks about Daniel's 70 weeks in Dan 9:24-27 very interesting when you ask who 'he' is in verse 27.but hey I'm still learning I started out being a pre-trib rapture believer but now, since coming to SI and being challenged early on by Dorcas i think and your own long discourses on 'Last Days Doctrine', find little actual evidence for it in the scripture but I'm open to the Word and good exposition of the Word.:-) God bless matt

sermonindex Mar 5, 2006

Matt, you always have been open to the Word and good exposition. I'm sorry if I appeared to bark at 'you'. Please understand I know how you search things out and know we have had very good exchanges last year.My bark was more directed at what I've heard being pushed about by our more modern day speakers, that are saying all sorts of things about the mark, like, it's just a "spiritual thing", instead of being an actual mark as the Greek implies of more of a scratch or graven mark.G5480χάραγμαcharagmakhar'-ag-mahFrom the same as G5482; a scratch or etching, that is, stamp (as a badge of servitude), or sculptured figure (statue): - graven, mark.When I get scared I sort of come off as I did, because when they say it's "spiritual", they are leaving off the "buying and selling" part and the chip has already been used for the replacement of the Credit Card, as was the intent from the git go. I have a Visa card application from 1998 that says, "As we successfully move onto a Cashless Society" and then I saw a literal commercial of a guy picking up things from the grocery store and just walking out with them, because he had the chip and the scanner just charged those items to his account. And on and on the stories go about the chip.Please don't think I'm the type to bite without having a rabbi shot first. Ha. I mean no harm, believe me. I hope you know that.God Bless you and thanks for coming back to tell me.His Love.Annie

sermonindex Mar 5, 2006

Oh, I also thought it neat the Ezekiel 9:4 is sort of like Rev. 9:4.Ain't GOD Neat ?! :-)

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philologos Mar 5, 2006

Edgar F. ParkynsEdgar was a dear friend and a member of our church here in Reading UK for some years before his homecall. He was a gentle, gracious man with a mischievous sense of humour! His view of the Revelation interpretation was what is usually called 'Historic'. The other main views are Pretorist, Futurist and Idealist.

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Greenquality Mar 5, 2006

I know nobody want to hear from me ,but i really think the mark of the beast is in your forhead,to say in your mind.!!

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crsschk Mar 5, 2006

To draw attention once again to this highly recommended series that Matt brought forth;Edgar F. Parkyns on Church History - 10 SessionsEdgar was a dear friend and a member of our church here in Reading UK for some years before his homecall. He was a gentle, gracious man with a mischievous sense of humour! His view of the Revelation interpretation was what is usually called 'Historic'. The other main views are Pretorist, Futurist and Idealist.Thanks Ron,What a blessing for us to have some of his tremendous work here.Had to re-write part of this... Got thrown by the 'quote's' surrounding 'historic'. Was originally of the mind to say "Why is this view not more prevelant...?"For some outtakes of the series see this thread and look for CJaKfOrEsT's contributions there.

sermonindex Mar 6, 2006

Well that's comforting Ron.But what is "Idealist" ? Ha, that made me smile, but I'm not sure if it's funny or not.I just thought, "Ideally" speaking would be, we wake up tonight all in Heaven. But ....

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ginnyrose Mar 7, 2006

I do not find the book of Revelation difficult to 'understand'. It is a book that details a vision given to John by Jesus of what will happen in the future. Knowing this, understanding it, will remove a lot of the difficulty many have with the book. The book tells us in chapter 1: 3: "blessed is he that readeth and they that hear the words of this prophecy.." Read it expectig a blessing and pay careful attention to the verbs, adverbs. If you do so it will eliminate a lot of confusion. And do not worry about trying to figure out whether something has happened yet or not. Just read it for its own sake. And then read it again, and again, and again....Visualize what John saw..asking the Holy Spirit for illumination. I think a lot of people are spooked by the book because of the wide ranging of disagreements concerning the book.(Read it WITHOUT referring to any reference books, like commentaries). Methinks this is a ploy of the Enemy to keep people away from studying it. It can be a very blessed experience reading, studying it if you make up your mind you will get into it.BTW, I even taught it to 9-11 year old children using the inductive method of Bible study! That was fun! and a blessing! Having said that, it is a book whose understanding has a way of diminishing with time. I have to study it intently to retain the message and understanding. I do not know why unless it is that this knowledge is more of recent orgin....and I am getting older... :-( Read it for all its worth and them come back and tell us how you were blessed!Just my thoughts,ginnyrose

sermonindex Mar 7, 2006

ginnyrose wrote:(Read it WITHOUT referring to any reference books, like commentaries). Me thinks this is a ploy of the Enemy to keep people away from studying it. ginnyroseMe thinks you've said that right sister. :-)

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saved_matt Mar 7, 2006

Visualize what John sawI have a friend who has got Revelation in pictorial form, dont know who drew them but they're supposed to be pretty amazing like the Great angel and the little book in Rev 10 standing on the land and the sea, i think my friend has them in powerpoint format ill ask if i can have a copy and see if Greg will put them in with the pictures, should be fascinating to see,matt

sermonindex Mar 7, 2006

Greenquality wrote:I know nobody want to hear from meMy friend, your thoughts and words are always welcome here. Dont ever hold back just because someone may disagree. If I did that I would never post here!Greenquality also wrote:i really think the mark of the beast is in your forhead,to say in your mind.!!You're free to interpret that as you wish, however I think it is a literal mark because scripture makes it abundantly clear that without the mark one will not be able to "buy or sell". Also it speaks of the mark being on the hand or the forehead.The technology is already here to implant a computer chip under the skin which can carry all of your medical information, banking information, etc. Just like we hardly use cash anymore because of the availibility of debit and credit cards, soon we can have this chip under our skin and "swipe" your hand under a scanner at Walmart. If this doesnt sound like the descripion of the mark of the beast, I dont know what is. And think of the how one could be controlled by this as well. All they need to do it put a GPS on this chip, and someone could know the where abouts of anyone who had this. You already have a GPS on you right now if you carry a cell phone. Or OnStar.I'm telling you, folks... the Lord is at the door. If you arent ready, you better get ready. I honestly believe that most of us on this forum will not taste death.By the way, this may seem nit-picky, but the last book of the Bible is called Revelation... not Revelations. While that may not seem a big deal, I think it is foundational to understanding Revelation. While there are many things revealed in Revelation, the book is about one revelation, and that is of the Lord Jesus Christ. Once you grasp that concept, it does help to understanding the rest.Krispy

sermonindex Mar 7, 2006

Annie wrote:My bark was more directed at what I've heard being pushed about by our more modern day speakers, that are saying all sorts of things about the mark, like, it's just a "spiritual thing", instead of being an actual mark as the Greek implies of more of a scratch or graven mark.Is there a difference between the word used in Revelation and that in (NKJV) 2 Corinthians 3:3 clearly [you are] an epistle of Christ, ministered by us, written not with ink but by the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of flesh, [that is,] of the heart.?

sermonindex Mar 7, 2006

Dorcas... i prefer the way the KJV puts it:2Co 3:3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. In other words, Paul wrote letter with ink, but we are living letters... and example unto all men because God's Word is written on our hearts. And what is in our hearts is what will be seen on the outside. Good stuff in our hearts, good lives. Bad stuff, bad lives. Garbage in, garbage out so to speak.By the way, glad you made it back. Sorry I couldnt get down to see ya when you passed thru NC. I hope you enjoyed our wonderful state.Krispy