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Implied Theology?

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GodsPeace Mar 6, 2006

I was searching for some answers on church discipline, and ran into an innocent enough sounding chat forum at, The Preacher's Files - http://www.preachersfiles.com/forum/index.php?sid=c1e5a63accee26ae674f1730d6cc5e44Well, soon I noticed some strange terminology being flung around, then, as I had mentioned a musical instrument in my post, someone said, "That guitar isn't used in church is it?" Implying that it would, well, basically be a sin. They go on to expound on the "True Church", which they probably believe they are. And they rejected my inference that they were a 'denominationally based' web site that I had inadvertantly posted to. They are the Church of Christ, which, by definition, I guess, is not a denomination, and they don't want your playing an instrument in their church!Well how do you support a theology based on what the Bible is silent about? Admittedly the New Testament doesn't have a lot to say about earthly instruments in service to God, but the Old Testament is loaded with the stuff. Sackbuts and Crumhorns, might not sound familiar to our ears, but I'm sure they made a noise very pleasing to the Lord.I guess it's a thing with me. Anytime a particular doctrine stands out or stands in the way of real spiritual communication and fellowship, it sends up a warning flag to me. Anytime someone mentions themselves as the "True Church", I start looking around for the big guy guarding the' Jim Jones' Kool-Aid stand.Just another rant!Jeffrey

sermonindex Mar 6, 2006

I don't know that all CoC believe that they are that exclusive as to be the only True Church.I know some good eggs in there ... though I don't believe their stance on musical instruments and some of their other beliefs, but there's another CoC forum that I saw years ago, run by some guy ... I can't remember ... but I "used" to find it entertaining to lurk and see where we "can" agree, so as not to throw out the wheat with tares.Jeffrey, may I ask how you've come to wind up in Thailand ?

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GodsPeace Mar 7, 2006

First, is it possible that there are more than one church denomination claiming the name Church of Christ? I don't personally know the answer.I seemed to pick up on the fact that there was some latitude of beliefs, but some hard-liners on their website as well. My main reason for posting was the issue of creating theology 'ex nihilo" or out of nothing. One sermon theologians can't get that one sermon out withou bringing up their pet theological doctrine. Always spells warning to me. Worse is when we claim to be the True Church. That was my background - Missionary Baptist. The true church doesn't need to claim it is so.On the other hand, there seemed to be some good Christians at the site I cited earlier. I just wouldn't want to have a jam session with them.Regarding Thailand. Previously a Seminary student, a student of missions, and an assistant pastor, Nevertheless, I was in sin - for years, and wanted to come here and find a wife and a house and die here. Then the Spirit started moving in my heart, convicting me of sin, and restoring the knowledge of scriptures submerged for years. He has made me see that "no compromise" and the life of the cross are, if not presently full-blown, are my future in Him. I feel like Jonah, but instead of a Whale, God used my backsliding to bring me to this wicked area - Pattaya. I hate Thailand. The people are unbelievably wicked. I can only have a burden for the individuals that God throws in my path, not for the country or the people as a whole. Doesn't this make you want to join me in Thailand?An hour ago I wrote a bit on SI under the thread "unfriendly churches", you might be interested in the abuse my friends and I have encountered at the hands of Thai churches and Christians. If the Lord tarries, I might try to get involved with people on a village level, with the ideal of the Apostolic house and village-localized church, sharing things in common, without iron-handed control over the sheep. I would like minimal authority, but the Thai's are into it heavily, so that's a major hurddle, or cross to take up.Mini-RantJeffrey

sermonindex Mar 7, 2006

God's Peace, {Amen}Thank you brother for answering here and giving details of that country.I know that my brother-in-law went there on a business trip many years ago and was about floored with the immorality. I can't believe you are there. That's incredible.It must be God's will or else you would have left there by now ... right ?You seem to be the only one there who cares.I read your story about that poor couple with the new baby. How sad, there's no words for such things, that I can utter right now.I can't imagine being "that" alone. But Praise the Lord you have a Computer and can 'venture out'.I am happy you found your way here. How did you happen upon this site, if I may ask ?I'm just amazed at this whole story and I could tell by how you wrote, that you were not a native of Thailand. Wow. Do you ever consider leaving or do you feel the Lord has set you root there ?I don't want to bog you down with questions, but this whole story from the other thread of "Unfriendly Churches" just amazes me and I cannot picture finding myself in a strange land.Oh my. Well, you certainly have my prayers and I pray the Lord impress it upon many others to keep you lifted up before the Throne.His Mercy to you.Annie

sermonindex Mar 7, 2006

My Utmost for His Highest .... Oswald ChambersMarch 6 Taking the Next Step . . . in much patience, in tribulations, in needs, in distresses —2 Corinthians 6:4 When you have no vision from God, no enthusiasm left in your life, and no one watching and encouraging you, it requires the grace of Almighty God to take the next step in your devotion to Him, in the reading and studying of His Word, in your family life, or in your duty to Him. It takes much more of the grace of God, and a much greater awareness of drawing upon Him, to take that next step, than it does to preach the gospel. Every Christian must experience the essence of the incarnation by bringing the next step down into flesh-and-blood reality and by working it out with his hands. We lose interest and give up when we have no vision, no encouragement, and no improvement, but only experience our everyday life with its trivial tasks. The thing that really testifies for God and for the people of God in the long run is steady perseverance, even when the work cannot be seen by others. And the only way to live an undefeated life is to live looking to God. Ask God to keep the eyes of your spirit open to the risen Christ, and it will be impossible for drudgery to discourage you. Never allow yourself to think that some tasks are beneath your dignity or too insignificant for you to do, and remind yourself of the example of Christ in John 13:1-17 .

sermonindex Mar 7, 2006

I haven't looked at the link you supplied, Jeffrey, but this topic (music) came up in another thread somewhere - not sure it was SI so don't hunt for it... and I realised there are more references than we realise.Well how do you support a theology based on what the Bible is silent about? 1 Cor 14:7 Even things without life, whether flute or harp, when they make a sound, unless they make a distinction in the sounds, how will it be known what is piped or played? Matthew 11:17 And saying, We have piped unto you, and ye have not danced; we have mourned unto you, and ye have not lamented. Then there is the marriage in John 2, which you're right, does not mention musical instruments, but, it seems likely there would be celebratory dancing, would there not? Matthew 6:2 Therefore when thou doest alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee...'The most important 'instrument' of praise and worship is the human voice. No Christian should be exempt from using it, but, not all are sweet singers, and for those who play an instrument better than they can sing, I believe the Lord willingly receives praise and worship offered through external musical instruments. I'd base that 'doctrine' on Paul's instruction to sing and make melody in our hearts to the Lord, because nowhere does the New Testament revoke the use of muscial instruments as part of the New Covenant; it does endorse singing, though, and that's almost a quote from the Old Testament.Hebrews 2:12 Saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethren, in the midst of the church will I sing praise unto thee.Psalm 22:22I will declare thy name unto my brethren: in the midst of the congregation will I praise thee. Some years ago, I noticed in the Old Testament, we read of God simply telling the people to praise Him. There are many examples. There is not necessarily a reason other than His instruction, and the implicit exhortation that He is GOOD and WORTHY to be praised. Perhaps, after Pentecost, when people had really experienced forgiveness at soul level, and knew a lightness in their spirit because of freedom from guilt and power over sin, they began to sing in a different way, and Paul recognised that it wasn't just desirable to praise God, but that it was spiritually nurturing to sing to Him....

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GodsPeace Mar 7, 2006

I just think it a bit tenuous to base a theology on something based upon texts that do not specifically deal with the matter. On the other hand, I think music in the church has definitely gotten out of hand. I'm a musician and hope to post some observations on this site at some point in the future.You can see a little of what I mean on another thread I'm contributing to in the "Lounge" entitled, Unfriendly Churches.I wish you would read that thread. The situations, and people involved can use a lot of prayer.Thanks,Jeffrey

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sj Mar 7, 2006

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GodsPeace Mar 7, 2006

Yes it does make me want to join you there!Hi,I don't know what I could have said to make you want to join me in Thailand. Though if you get over here look me up. Thailand can always use those that love the Lord. It is a good place to come if you want to share in the disappointment with people that I'm sure our Lord endured every day. Read my last two postings in the Lounge entitled "unfriendly churches", you'll see the tip of the tip of the iceberg.I checked out your friend's link a little, will go to it more in depth later. They are quite far from me. Hat Yai. I'm sure it is a better place than Pattaya - Sin City CentralThanks,Jeffrey

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