Dare I say... alcohol?????

Hey everyone!!! It seems as if there are a lot of Christians on this site from all over the place (The US, Canada, Europe etc...) and I thought I would ask what may be a very easy question, or may cause a whole lot of problems: What do yall think about Christians drinking alcohol? I have my own opinions, but I was just curious... Hope I didn't start a world war... :-)

Hey Ryanelijah welcome to SI, :-) Eph 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; to me this says dont get drunk, not dont drink, but i dont do the latter either:-P my 2 cents, works well for me,God bless look forward to reading more from youmatt

I like the wine, every now than,I don't drink to get drunk. so you all know.!!

Woudn't it have been fun to be at Jesus' first miracle! What a way to launch a carreer - announce his Messiahship! Maybe he did that because wine is a prophetic picture of the New Covenant - which is what Christ as really all about. Diane

I confess right now to you all...I get drunk everday...Sometimes I see visions...sometimes I get so drunk I weep & weep...I do some strange things...I confess I'm a Godaholic...I get drunk on Jesus' love everday!! :-D Sorry, I just couldnt pass it up. ;-)

Proverbs 20:21:Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.Matthew Henry in part adds:It mocks him, makes a fool of him, promises him that satisfaction which it can never give. It smiles upon him at the first, but at the last it bites.and Proverbs 23:31:Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.And Matthew Henry again,Take heed of the bait, for fear of the hook.And indeed, a hook is what you will find. If it is the taste one enjoys why not a non-alcoholic variety? Why not take to heart “abstain from all appearance of evil”?Enough for me to abstain. I need all my mental and physical faculties operating unimpaired as we are living in perilous times.tonys

I realy like a good white wine now and then.The thing to remember is moderation.

I had a discussion with a guy once about drug use, but the principle fits in here.Paul wrote, "Whatever is not of faith is sin."I asked this guy, "Why do people take drugs?"He said` "I don't know? Lots of reasons."Aaron - "Give a specific person's reason."Bloke - "Dulls the pain of life? Feels good?"Aaron - "Is there another way to do that?"Bloke - "I don't know? Perhaps?"Aaron - "Let, me put it another way, does God have a perscribed meathod of addressing the problem of pain, lonliness?"Bloke - "I don't know?"Aaron - "Have you ever asked Him? Have you ever searched His Word for an answer to that question?"The problem with most "Christian" responses to issues like alcohol and drug use is that most Christian have an ignorance about addictions, thinking them to be all about being controled by something. While this is true, it is over simplified, because it ignores things like brain chemistry and emotional developement.The issue of alchohol and drug use is one of meeting God given needs by a means that was not perscribed by God. The reality is, that we all do this in one area or another, but for some reason we tend to claim permission to do our thing, rather than allow it to show us our depravity, when compared with a perfect God.If I were to tell you that I tend to have a short fuse and lose my temper with my childeren frequently (no I'm not being hyperthetical), what would you think if I justified it by saying, "Well, he deserves it. No matter how many times I tell him to do something, he won't learn how to do it right." Many people do this, while all the "super patient" people "tut-tut" at them. Then "victimised parents" let out a "Yeah, I hear you.." (Perhaps I should mention at this point that my son is 5yo.) Who's right in all this? None of them, God is.Will any of these opinions make my conduct okay? No. Will they change my behavious? Probably not. The only thing that will is an application of 1 John 1:8-10. Until I have the guts to admit that what I am doing falls short of His perfect will, and that I have no intrinsic desire to change, I won't.Alchohol meets a need that God intended holy fellowship with other people to meet. I could elaborate on that, but it would take too much time, and would distract us from the issue into a discussion on the compatabilty of psychology with scripture.If you drink, then I'm not in anyway trying to say that you're less of a person than a "grumpy old man" like me, but don't allow yourself to be deceived into thinking that God approves of it.

I find it interesting that some of the most vivid and beautiful pictures God has placed into the fabric of live has been so terribly distorted by misuse. For example: marriage, sex, and many more, including wine. Satan tries to keep our focus on the flaws in those pictures to such an extent that we fail to see the real beauty and the real meaning behind that symbol. Wine was a drink offering to God. ... a land of grain and new wine..and abundant supply of new wine"New wine will drip from the mountains, and flow from all the hills" Amos 9:13'The vats will brim over with new wine." Joel 2:24:their hearts will be glad as with new wine." Zech. 10:7New wine symbolizes the New Covenant promise which would burst through the confining walls of Old Covenant religion. Lk5:37 No one pours new wine into old wine skins... the new wine will burst the skins. Sadly many will want to cling to their old religious traditions. Jesus said, 'and no one after drinking the old wine wants the new, for he says, "The old is better." Lk. 5:39 They just refuse to taste the new wine! Just as God's mercy has a flip side for all who reject him, ie judgment, so also wine has a flip side for those who reject God's spriitual new wine" Wine is a mocker, .. and drink the wine of violence, .. ..."maddening wine of her aldulteries." Rev. 18:3You can't have it both ways. Without surrender to God, you surrender to something else - symbolized with wine - that can gain control of you and destroy you and others. Or, you take of God' New Wine and be filled with his Spirit, living a life under God's authority. Wine is a symbol of God's blessings for obedience. Note what happens to wine during judgment: Your choice wine is diluted with water.(apostate Israel) Is. 1:22 the new wine drys up and the vine withers." Is. 24:7 In the final judgment that very thing that was a symbol of blessing becomes symbolic of judgment: " The wine of God's fury." Rev. Rev. 14:10I feel badly for all those who either misuse alchohol, or only think of the bad side of it and never view it as a magnificent picture God gave us of the most wonderful promise that has ever and will ever exist - even for all eternity. Dare I say ....alcohol!!! ... You bet!!!!! (ie New Wine) Diane

Hi you all. This was a big issue all my life. As christians we never drank or had any alcohol in our home and none of my family members drink until this day. The hard thing for me was the very same thing most christians struggle with. The fact that it seems like if the Scriptures contradict itself. In one place God says, dont get drunk and in another occasion He makes wine for the people on which they could get drunk???How do you understand that? I didn't understand it at all when I was younger. THe reason so many of us still sit with issues like this one, is because we are to laisy to do some research and searching in the area. Instead we make our own opinions as it fits us. Only after I did quite a search and reading on the topic of wine and alcohol, I realised most of us has no idea where wine came from and how it was made in the Bible times!!!!I cant explain and write everything here, it will take ages. But just for example. Wine in the times of Kings and Popes who lived just after Jesus, was described in their writings. These wine was made by pressing out the juice. Then the juice was placed in the sun to evaporate the water content. The wine then became like a jelly and it was placed in NEW lether bags to be preserved. When if one would like to drink it, it was thrown out of the bag and mixed again with water. In those times fermented wine was NOT good wine. Good wine was those that just came from the grape , the NEW WINE, that had no time for fermentation!! Jesus said that NEW WINE should not be thrown in old leather bags, otherwise it whould burst(fermentation would start and the gas produced will rip the bag and the wine will get messed) The process of fermentation in the Bible in almost all situations is associated with sin.Another thing is the word wine!! THe bad thing is that in Greek and Hebrew(and here is a part I have not totally finished my homework yet) there is only one or two words for the word wine. The words further does not distinguish Whether it is non- or totally alcoholic. Therefore all the words or most of them were translated into wine. And the alcoholic wine we know today is very different than those they had in Jesus' time. If we would just study to show ourselves approved before God. I many times wonder why muslims and others don't come to Christ more often. And one of the things is, we dont questions things or take a good look at its origin and end. If we do that more, I do believe we would't have half as many of these things we dont really know what to say about.A great book to read on this is the following. Please don't look at the writer, great study and searching was also put into that book and it is worth reading, even if you don't agree with the writer in other parts. Do your own study and search in any case. The book is: SIPPING SAINTS by:DAVID WILKERSONHope and pray that Christ will open our eyes to the truth, even if it is mine that needs to be opened if I am wrong.In Christ.Janus

And the alcoholic wine we know today is very different than those they had in Jesus' time.In the same way our understanding of the work of the Spirit is very different than God intended it. We try to make it safely fit into our "wine skins" and limit God's power.Janus, do you mind responding to my post?DianeDiane

wine is wine, same recipe with some slight changes, in the the process.passed on from 2000yr and more.some many think that they drank grape juice and called that wine is not true. what else will you believe. wine today is made the same way as yesterday.If I go into someone house and host of that house,offer me their very best drink to have with them,do I refuse and insult the person of that house that i enter.If the host of the house offer me meat to eat,Do i refuse and insult again.Then the host of the house with his kindness, makes me a burden. that's my thought.

I have not drunk in ages but I can tell you some stories that will make your hair stand up.I am teetotal.I was working doing heavy labour work and this guy use to drink five pints of alchol during lunch time. It scared me because just a small drop of this funiture would kill anyone. In all the labour and work that I have done it is by gods grace that in this country more disasters do not happen. With the amount of people I have seen drunk or who drink over the limit it is dangerous. Imagine this someone who is doing the signals to your train so that your train runs on time and so that another train does not crash into another train drinks. This is what it is like in every sector.It is not only in that sector it is the middle class as well as upper class people in this soceity. The amount of drinking is absolutly mad in university, it is absolutly mad. I have to deal with the opposite end of it with the homeless, where they drink called white lighting and kill themselves.Some of them go to sleep and wake up dead or walk into a phone box and wake up dead. The alchol problem is maniac in england. Some of the homeless almost kill themsleves over having a drink. I have seen this first hand. I do not drink, because I know what a danger it is and use to drink but do not now. Most of the problems in the culture are caused by drink related problems such as violence and rape and other things.

wine is wineFrom what I understand, I could very well be wrong, but the same Greek word they used for firmented wine is the same word as wine straight from the vine ie grape juice. I may be mistaken if I am please correct me I would like to know for sure.I run into drunks all the time on the street that use "Jesus turned water into wine" as their excuse to drink whiskey. I have often mused the fact that that when they drank the wine that Jesue made, they noticed that it tasted better. If one is drunk off drinking all the wine they had, could the really tell that it was better tasting? I do not think they were getting drunk off the wine he made. Jesus hates sin and would not promote it. I personally, abstain from it. Now most will use the arguement that you can drink it in moderation and it be fine, I would abstain from the very apearence of it. One might say, "Oh, but what about food? GLuttony is a sin, but eating in moderation isn't bad." I do not know of any scriptures that come straight and say "Gluttons will not inherit the kingdom of God." Or "gluttons go to Hell." Here are the only two verses in the KJV that have the word glutton.. and notice they also mention drunks. (I haven't checked to see if the Hebrew word is translated any other ways)Deu 21:20 And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son [is] stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; [he is] a glutton, and a drunkard. Pro 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe [a man] with rags. I am by no means saying that gluttony is not a sin or shouldn't be concidered, but are scriptures that deal with glutton as straight forward as scriptures dealing with drunks?If you do drink, do not get drunk..1Cr 6:10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

The main reason I abstain from it is because my conscience will not allow it. I would be damned if I drank.. or that's what I see out of these verses..Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed [are] pure; but [it is] evil for that man who eateth with offence. Rom 14:21 [It is] good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor [any thing] whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak. Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have [it] to thyself before God. Happy [is] he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth. Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because [he eateth] not of faith: for whatsoever [is] not of faith is sin.

Ok. So now that I started this whole thing, I should probably say something! I'm so glad that someone brought up "Sipping Saints" by David Wilkerson. What a great book! Regardless of what you think of this pastor or this book, here are a few things:1. If you grab a concordance and look up "wine", the Bible is very clear what it thinks about it. It says things like, "it is a mocker" and "in the end it bites like a scorpion". 2. Someone said, "if I step into someones home and they offer me some wine, dare I insult them and refuse?" So, if they offered you some porn, would you take them up on that as well?? We are to be SET APART. Anyone who is offended by your decision not to drink, is NOT your friend.3. Jesus did make wine at his first miracle. But, lets be honest. There is at minimum some very serious debate on whether or not the wine was alcoholic. "New wine" to me represents the new covenant, and also explains that it was fresh off the branches. Meaning - JUICE. 4. One in ten people in America (I realize some of you are from other countries...) ADMIT to being an alcoholic. I wonder how many more that don't admit it? But regardless, lets say you drink totally responsibly, and you are "wise enough" and "strong enough" to not become addicted. You cannot guarantee that you children won't become alcoholics. (If you went to the parent of an alcoholic, who drinks responsibly, and told them of their childs ailment, not a single loving parent would choose to keep their "one glass of wine with dinner" and risk their childs ruin. Not a single one. Also, I have known many Christians, who are struggling to over come the addiction, who watch other Christians drink and think "I should be able to handle my liquor." They fall off the wagon. And Paul says not to cause a brother to stumble. (It is the same logic we use to say that women should dress modestly. "Don't cause a brother to stumble into lust." Well, you drinking casually in a restaurant could be the final thread in causing someone to fall into that temptation again. Now, is that beer worth it? 5. Lastly. Please everyone pray about this. When you look at the statistics, they show that the majority of deaths on the road, domestic abuse, child abuse/molestation, murder, robbery etc. involve alcohol. That's just a fact. Now, go into Heaven, and ask God. "God, would you rather have a world with or without alcohol?" What do you really think he would say? Could ONE drink really be worth aiding an industry that promotes so much destruction???? Then go to Satan, this is all in your mind of course, and ask him. "Satan, would you rather have a world with or without alcohol?" When it leads, for MOST PEOPLE to so much sin, why would he get rid of it??? People will say that Jesus made wine for a people that the text says, "were already well drunk". Now, if God does not contradict Himself, and all the Bible is true and written by God, why would he make wine for people who were "well drunk" and then say that "a drunkard will surely not enter the kingdom of heaven". Sorry, but I don't believe our loving God would set us up to fail. This is my opinion and what Jesus has told my heart. Please pray about this issue. (50 years ago the ENTIRE church was in agreement about this issue. Are we so arrogant as to say that our liberal cultures have not influenced us in this as well?) Let me know your thoughts... Tarah

Wow, in reading the posts a touchy subject indeed. Praise the Lord all as this is my first post. I had a conversation with another brother concerning this. I told him that I cannot even bring myself to think about having alchohol on any level. The bible says "walk in the Spirit and ye shall not fulfill the lust of the flesh." The Spirit of Christ within me does not lead me that way. If we are willing to receive instructions from the Holy Spirit and really be honest and sincere in righteousness, what will God be saying to us concerning this? Are we willing to receive what the Lord will say and surrender. If He says abstain, are we willing? :-o

you know, i used to drink quite a bit when i was in my teens, it was kinda binging i think. one day though i passed out and since then i've resolved never to drink that much. when i drink (don't like beer except the traditional opaque brew from home) be it shot or 2 or some wine i feel no guilt nor condemnation. for those that do it perhaps would be good not to drinkif you feel convicted.

This is one of those subjects that always makes for quite a debate!I'm curious about the quick comment that 50 years ago the ENTIRE church was in agreement about this issue.Context is the the dividing line here. Reading PreachParsly's respone, I respect his attitude. Any person in a position of leadership or teaching within the church must be above reproach. It would be better not to touch anything that could offend than to engage in liberties that, even though explainable, might raise questions.On that same note, within the right situation and constraints, there is nothing wrong with alcohol. In an earlier thread of this same topic, I discussed a family that I know. The husband and wife sit down in front of their fireplace every night and share a glass of wine together. I think that this is an amazing example of an acceptable use. When (1) the heart is right about it's purpose, (2) constraints are used and (3) the situation is right, it can be a blessing.What makes this subject is that it is often used outside of what it should be used for. The possibility of abuse with any substance is what gives it a bad name, and sometimes rightfully so. It's a touchy issue, and probably always be, and often for good reason.I turned 21 a few weeks ago. I bought a bottle of red and a bottle of white wine. Honestly, I didn't like either, and ended pouring them both out. Because I'm involved in my church, I do not plan on buying any more. Should my leadership come into question over a trivial matter? It's not worth it. Better to "avoid all appearance of evil".