Revival Idolatry

Do you think that many of us, especially on this website, seek Revival more than God?I read a little Oswald Chambers this morning over Surrender...and I truly think that I have sought Revival and Ministry more than the face of God these past few months. I don't know....am I the only one who struggles with this? Has anyone else come to a point in their relationship with God where they find themselves praying more for the movement of God than for the intimacy of God?I want revival so that God's glory will be shown and His name vindicated...for souls to be harvested. In the ministry I yearn to see a generation rise up as a hell wrecking, kingdom advancing group who know God face to face. I want to know God's heart...but I tend to put the prior two things above this - any suggestions on balancing these as well??Thanks,DOI Pet 4:2

In the ministry I yearn to see a generation rise up as a hell wrecking, kingdom advancing group who know God face to face.I too deeply want this, but I have come to a reality. That reality is that I am the only one I can control. I do pray that God woul move, yes. The only revival I can truely have a part in is the one that is in me. I can pray for others, preach to others, but I will stand before God alone.

I read a little Oswald Chambers this morning over SurrenderYes, this March 13th item from My Utmost for His Highest has really challenged me also. Chambers said that genuine surrender is a personal sovereign preference for Jesus Christ Himself. I have to ask myself if I prefer the Lord Himself or do I just prefer to consider what he can do for me or the church, including revival. Hard question, the honest answer causes me to groan.Have you ever heard the pain in Leonard Ravenhill's voice in the clip from the Revival Hymn where he says, "I'm tired of reading about revival. I'm tired of writing about revival..."? I feel the same way and yet he never stopped praying for it and neither will I. However Ravenhill went on to say that God seeks men who will do anything He asks, in other words, men with a personal sovereign preference for Jesus Christ Himself.In Christ,Ron

Sometimes I think there is an unhealthy focus on "revival" by many. This is one thing I do not like about Leonard Ravenhill. Revival is needed these days no doubt, but it is interesting that of all the things the likes of Ravenhill and others said on revival, it is actually interesting to see how little the Scriptures really treat the topic of "revival." When you really stop and think about it, how much of what "revivalists" have said is preaching grounded in the Scripture? I think this is perhaps why it seems Ravenhill was led astray near the end of his life by false prophets like Paul Cain and such. I mean, my God, by the end of his life he was pretty much singing the praises of these false prophets and you can see him being manipulated by them all throughout his Aneheim series on revival. They were able to flatter his desire, likening him unto Simeon of Luke 2, saying that before he would die that he would see the revival he longed for. Sadly, Ravenhill never saw the revival he longed for. On top of it, I think if we simply focus on "revival" we will have a tendency towards romanticism. I love Ravenhill and am greatly indebted to him, but I think he tended to suffer from this problem as well. Read almost any of his books where he talks about prophets, and this will be evident if you actually examine the Scriptures closely. Prophets weren't God's crisis men for crisis situations. Such might preach, but it's bad theology. I say instead of focusing simply on "revival" we simply need to focus on Christian living, and all aspects of that living. There are revival junkies, some perhaps on this forum's web site, who know nothing of victorious Christian living. Such is revival.

I want revival so that God's glory will be shown and His name vindicated...for souls to be harvested.I think you just answered yourself! You are jealous for His glory and thats what its about. We cant have revival if we dont "ASK"!! We need a personal revival GREAT, but we need to pray and seek God that our cup would over flow into the church. Evan Roberts was consumed with revival until he had it, and every christian or church didnt just say 'well all I need is personal revival' NO, NO they were consumed with it with brokeness & tears pleading with God....they didnt just wish this into being!! Its easy NOT to pray for revival because it doesnt cost anything.Ravenhill said: "Revival must not be just a once-a-week concern in the midweek church prayer meeting...would any girl become an opera singer by practicing once a week? NO! She must give herself to singing.I was listening to Ravenhill mp3's from another site the other day, and I was kinda taken aback by how little of the scriptures he referenced while he preached. He used a verse here and a verse there as proof texts, but no real Bible teaching. Just a lot of conjecturingRavenhill saw and had real revival in a church...have we?? If I want to learn how to be a world champ at golf....I'll listen with open ears to Tiger Woods...(I dont golf) Krisp, I know what your saying but when or if I pray 8-10 hours like Ravenhill a day maybe I'll see things in a new light.... I wouldnt say anything bad about John Wesley...how could I. These men payed a price that many of us who live in America are not willing to pay.

it is actually interesting to see how little the Scriptures really treat the topic of "revival." When you really stop and think about it, how much of what "revivalists" have said is preaching grounded in the Scripture? Well, I continue to disagree with you but I count you as a brother...I've read every book, every video + videos most people dont have, lots & lot of audio sermons, and you say not enough bible?? I say different.I think this is perhaps why it seems Ravenhill was led astray near the end of his life by false prophets like Paul Cain Led astray!!??? When I look at a giant like this.. I dont shoot from the hip...no,no..... "All things work together"You know its like those ministers who came to his home (Martha told this) and Ravenhill was still sleeping....Martha never told them why he was still sleeping (up praying all night) and those ministers think what kind of preacher is this sleepin in, and telling others to do the opposite?? Those ministers wernt to fond then...Thank God Ravenhill never lived to impress men!!!Maybe we should try that!!??? ;-)

I think Ravenhill is one of the best teachers we have had and the burden he had for the Church was something we could all benefit from. The bible might not use the term revival but it is definitely a theme. Old and New Testament. 1 Chronicles 15:4 But in their distress they turned to the Lord, the God of Israel, and He was found by them. These people sought God wholeheartedly and were rewarded. If you want a revival for His glory and for people to be saved what is wrong with that? I can only reckon myself dead to the flesh and pray for others to come to the same place. Murray

Do you think that many of us, especially on this website, seek Revival more than God?This is a risky question because it asks for our opinion - and that is dangerous ground to tred. We might not see the way God sees. I once heard a revival preacher say, "You can start worshipping revival without knowing it." And that, I fully agree with. In James it says that desires can lead us astray - into sin. It is our desires that cause us to fall prey to temptations. And Satan knows just what we want, and can mimic it with the most ideal temptations. A desire for revival, though, in itself, is not wrong, can be tainted with faulty desires. ex, we want something awesome to happen, something that is exciting, we want things to "turn out right", we want something that we can write about, that makes our church wonderful, get more members, etc etc. There can be a longing in our heart that yearns for somthing that we do not have, cannot have, but we feel we must have it in order to feel secure in our topsy turvey world, to validate our prayers, give us the optimal religious experience, better fellowship .... or whatever. Our "burden" for revival can cause us to miss the obvious - what God is doing under our noses, though in very quiet, unimpressive ways. Idolatrous yearning for revival will side track us an cause us to neglect our present responsibilites. Faulty desires can be very suble and unconscious, not obvious like those who run here and there to "revival" meetings, renewal meetings or whatever. (even then, we must be very careful how we judge, for God is quite able to use even faulty desires)Scripture tells us to be content, wait patiently, trust in God's timing, continue being disciples and love those who are in our lives right now - even the "unrevived" ones. To rest in the Lord, yet feel a burden for revival - that is our challenge. Have you ever thought that God might answer our prayers in the next generation?Diane

I read a little Oswald Chambers this morning over Surrender...and I truly think that I have sought Revival and Ministry more than the face of God these past few months.One of Owswald Chambers writing gifts is his ability to identify the fat in our faith. When reading him he always seems to have my number if I am seeking mountain top experiences, or living off my own enthusiasm rather then depending soley on Christ...even during the dull times. In fact many of us Christians don't even feel permission to go through mundane or dull times. We've been sold some CCM hype that God needs to always be doing a "New Thang" and if our lives aren't poppin' like microwave popcorn then we are not experiencing the fullness of Christ....instead of focusing simply on "revival" we simply need to focus on Christian living, and all aspects of that living. I like this common sense statement! In following a physical workout routine I sometimes feel uninspired or unmotivated by lack of progress to reach my goals. I have to remind myself, "I'm not building a body...I'm building a way of life and the body will follow."I think Romans 12 describes the "way of life" for the Christian. It says nothing about revival per se...in fact much of it sounds downright unexciting. Yet if this is how we live our lives before the Lord, the Body will become manifestly "revived". Let love be without dissimulation. Abhor that which is evil; cleave to that which is good.Be kindly affectioned one to another with brotherly love; in honour preferring one another;Not slothful in business; fervent in spirit; serving the Lord;Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;Distributing to the necessity of saints; given to hospitality.Bless them which persecute you: bless, and curse not.Rejoice with them that do rejoice, and weep with them that weep.Be of the same mind one toward another. Mind not high things, but condescend to men of low estate. Be not wise in your own conceits.Recompense to no man evil for evil. Provide things honest in the sight of all men. If it be possible, as much as lieth in you, live peaceably with all men. Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Good point. Would you know revival is often precipitated by a crises in an individuals life? (I am talking about personal revival..it has to begin there before it can go any further). This can be a severe one...are you ready for that? So the simple answer to revival is for one to get close to God and be willing to be obedient to whatever he calls you to, whether you like it or not. I have the feeling Abraham was not jumping up and down and shouting "Praise the LORD!" when God asked him to go sacrifice his son Isaac...and as a result he is held up as an example of a man of faith. ginnyrose

Well put, Roadsign! Murray

interesting brethrenit seems to me Ravenhill was given a burden for revival more than most of us and while he didn't live to see it it seems he remained obedient to that to the end. but somehow i think that the day to day living of the Christian life is a revival, a return to what and where we should be, like bro kingjimmy said, it's victorious Christian living. that's what revival is, a return to what God has called us to be and we are on the verge of the final one. in as much as Ravenhill may appeared (or was indeed) led astray toward the end of his life by false prophets, someone said that all things work together for the good...that's the bottom line.we all have different burdens that the Lord gives us and we should be obedient to the carrying of those and also living as we should.

Sister Diane wrote:Our "burden" for revival can cause us to miss the obvious - what God is doing under our noses, though in very quiet, unimpressive ways. Idolatrous yearning for revival will side track us an cause us to neglect our present responsibilites. Matt. 20:1 “For the kingdom of heaven is like a landowner who went out early in the morning to hire laborers for his vineyard. 2 Now when he had agreed with the laborers for a denarius a day, he sent them into his vineyard. 3 And he went out about the third hour and saw others standing idle in the marketplace, 4 and said to them, “You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right I will give you.’ So they went. 5 Again he went out about the sixth and the ninth hour, and did likewise. 6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, “Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ 7 They said to him, “Because no one hired us.’ He said to them, ‘You also go into the vineyard, and whatever is right you will receive.’Matt. 20:8 “So when evening had come, the owner of the vineyard said to his steward, ‘Call the laborers and give them their wages, beginning with the last to the first.’ 9 And when those came who were hired about the eleventh hour, they each received a denarius. 10 But when the first came, they supposed that they would receive more; and they likewise received each a denarius. 11 And when they had received it, they complained against the landowner, 12 saying, “These last men have worked only one hour, and you made them equal to us who have borne the burden and the heat of the day.’ 13 But he answered one of them and said, “Friend, I am doing you no wrong. Did you not agree with me for a denarius? 14 Take what is yours and go your way. I wish to give to this last man the same as to you. 15 Is it not lawful for me to do what I wish with my own things? Or is your eye evil because I am good?’ 16 So the last will be first, and the first last. For many are called, but few chosen.”I get the sense that we often want to be those that are spoken of in the parable above:6 And about the eleventh hour he went out and found others standing idle, and said to them, “Why have you been standing here idle all day?’ We have no desire to be those that were first hired. I know of a church where the pastor continues to hope for the works of the Spirit and sets up meetings, to enable God, to work in those meetings. Yet this same pastor preaches nothing of what it means to walk with Jesus. Only Jesus loves you so, so, so, much. Come and enter into the promise of heaven. The sheep continue in their old ways and have not learned of the ways that God loves. The substance of what they hope for is found in the things that they can see. They learn nothing of seperation from this world. So in a way, revival becomes another crutch to those who are in bondage to sin. In ChristJeff

So in a way, revival becomes another crutch to those who are in bondage to sin. Well phrased Brother Jeff....never thought of it quite like that.On another note...can someone please explain to me the deal with Ravenhill being led astray by false prophets toward the end of his life? I have never heard this and would like to know what happened.In His,DOI Pet 4:2

Revival is not something God holds back waiting for special times and circumstances. In fact it is not abnormal at all. At least from God's point of view it's not. We think what happens when we experience revival is abnormal and that is a sad indicator of our knowledge of Him, or rather our lack of knowledge of Him. According to 2 Chronicles 7 it is a return to normal. Not normal from our point of view, but from God's. There is much talk about revival but little evidence of it and that means we still refuse to see things from His point of view.A large part of the problem is that people have different things in mind when they talk about revival. Most people think of miracles and large numbers of people coming to Christ as revival. These things are not revival. They happen as results of revival. People begin to pray for these things thinking that they are revival and miss the point. What is revival? Revival is when God's people, who are called by His name, humble themselves, pray, seek His face, and turn from their sin. In other words, confession and repentence. God told Solomon that when He shut up the heavens and there was no rain, when the locusts devoured the land, and there was pestilence among His people, it was because of sin.There is idolotry, but not revival idolotry. There is a desire to see the inspiring things (like miracles) without paying the price of repentence. All we really want is the warm fuzzies. A desire for true revival is one that yearns for God to reveal all sin so that it can be confessed and turned from. It is a desire to live a holy life, a desire for Jesus to live His life in us.

I have studied revivals from first century onward, and you always trace it back to an individual praying or a group of people praying FOR IT!! "ASK and you shall recieve"I dont mind using the word revival because it gives a sense of what direction we need...I dont want to give a 1 page essay to describe revival...we just say revival, or new test. christianity. When I was licensed years ago to be a pastor I had to sit down with a board of ministers from the state....they asked me what is your goal in the next 10 years or so...at 24 years old I said without thinking 'I want to get back to the new test. church'.....I still years later...this is still my longing...revival! When we pull out the old books like: Bounds, Finney, Moody, Tozer, Roberts, Smith, Hyde, ECT... They all longed for revival!! I long to see a church walk in the power of the Spirit and "CONTINUE" as the disciples did...revival. I long to see the glory of God in church not just one or 2 weeks but continually. I dont care if they believe in speaking in tounges, or if they believed once saved always saved ect... Richard Owen Roberts said: "Revival is when heaven is nearest" Like he said also 'what christian wouldnt long for that!!' YES,YES what christian wouldnt long for that!!!

I can understand the tendency to look for "revival" but I see revival as I consciously and intentionally surrendering every area of my life to Jesus. It's not a finished deal yet in my heart but that's what I'm seeing happening and it's been a lengthy letting go process. I pray your heart hasn't been as hard as mine because it repeatedly has to be broken...I've read about revival and it seems as though the same thing happens in revival, although the time to give everything over to Jesus is greatly shortened.It's not an emotional experience but a conscious letting go of all sin, much of it which goes back to childhood. The revival is simply the fruit as there's nothing between the heart of Jesus and my heart because everything has been given over to Him.It's not my money, my time, etc. it all belongs to Jesus. I would think that a revival without Jesus wouldn't really be a revival would it? Perhaps I'm missing something.

I have studied revivals from first century onward, and you always trace it back to an individual praying or a group of people praying FOR IT!! "ASK and you shall recieve"And yet, I have to say that in the past 10 years there has been a lot of praying for revival - many more than just one person. Now are we all defective in our prayers, or is God indeed doing the work of revival in his way and time. Well, to me it is just the opposite. I'm seeing all kinds of people fall away, stray, I see the church moving further away from God.I think part of the revial process is the preparation for it - and God only knows how long that is to be. And even then, I believe that God can overrule man's resistance in a flash. Look at the amazing testimonies during revivals - the amazing sweep of God's hand. I have come to believe that without this happening again, we will not be able to sustain the Christian faith - as it is meant to be, for long. We need divine intervention. Even though we may define revival as a simple condition of personal obedience, I believe there is also a time when God supernaturlly "rends the heavens" and comes down in holy fire. Certainly history has proven that - and that is what we long for. The only problem is, we start expecting revival to look certain ways that they are not. And people capitolize on our yearning for revival and sell revival caps, t-shirts, and CD's. Wouldn't you want to be identified as a yearner of revival - and wear a cap so that everybody can know..... Oh.... maybe you'd rather wear a cap that says "God-chasers". In all seriousness, to me this writer, Becky McLendon has a good understanding of Revival: It's messyWelcome to RevivalDiane