2 cents

TS, that was more than 2 cents of mud slinging.Why have you singled out Krispy ?The WOF movement is the Prosperity Doctrine that you have just condemned yourself with your own post.And still the "Heart of God" for OTHERS is missing in your post, just as many who seek "this revival" are missing in Christ's Words to "go out into the highways and bi-ways and compel them to come in"."Give me souls or I shall die" is the cry of Christ's heart and not more "talk" and self-righteous mud-slinging.All I see in these dissertations are prayers and Scriptures aimed at "self" and not for 'The Witness' to the lost that watch our posts as we type them and are waiting out in the hospitals, and Nursing Homes, and Orphanages, and Prisons, and Homeless Shelters, and all over the globe for us to witness Christ's Love, compassion and Salvation to them.Where is this TS and could you not find one post on that whole Revival thread that you could have used as an example of what Jesus' Heart is crying out for, or only what our own lazy, self-righteous hearts desire for spiritual glamore ?"Love" is not mud-slinging to show what "Love" is .... it is being a sheep found in John 10 and, Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Mat 25:42 For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Being concerned about a false doctrine that is sweeping thousands of "Christians" down the garden path is most certainly a concern of the faith.Murray, thanks for the statement... I'm a bit hazy on the details, but I know some of it is just a hair's breadth away from truth, and that makes it particularly difficult to extract oneself from.Annie,You could have found something positive in the leading post.... could you not? I certainly didn't hear TS setting him/herself apart from the attitudes criticised.And I think we all have our own reasons for being on the computer. This is where the discussion takes place, whether we can, do, or don't go out and show love to the world in a practical way. I'd be very surprised if there are people in SI who literally never do anything for the poor and needy. That is not to say it will ever be enough. We know it will not. But, we have to do what the Holy Spirit prompts, at least, if not much more. (That is another discussion.)I haven't read the whole Revival Idolatry thread but even the title needs to be taken into account when 'hearing' the cry from TS in its true context (who said:)....They will know we are christians by our love? Who will know?He includes himself there. (Remember, the discussion is not 'how will they know?')We "christians" are arrogant and selfish...what is the difference between signs and wonders and revival? Is revival itself not a sign...is it not a wonder? That the Father of Mercy would light hearts on fire towards repentance unto salvation; certainly this would qualify as both a sign and a wonder.I, too, was concerned by the statement which TS challenges here, especially as (I am) one who seeks to move in the spirituals.We seek revival without knowing how far we are from the Holy God.....This is the leading sentence in a paragraph containing an important series of rhetorical questions. One might suggest TS is being idealistic.... that these things were bound to occur sooner or later .... that they are prophesied by scriture .... If so, the question remains as to how true Christians should respond to these opportunities to resist the rise of secularism..... or, we could just call it sin?Just for the record, TS saidlike Krispy and so many othersin his second paragraph. Krispy has taken part in that thread and thereby lays himself open to comment - as do we, here.TS,I am frustrated that we are not seeing the humble man able to heal, raise the dead or prophecy with the certainty that the old testament prophets did. But the Bible says these things are to be...so I must believe that they will be and not become offended that I do not see it yet...These things do happen in some places in the world, as I understand it, usually where the opposition to truth is more overt... where Christians are living under threat of prison or death.Let us not pray for revival but for judgment where it will be as a drunken man slapped out of his stupor and made to face the grim reality of his existence...such is the state of this "church" clamoring for revival.What would a good American do with revival if it hit him in the face? When I was a teenager, I was challenged by a very similar question to this, by a peer, a girl whose father was a minister of a Presbyterian church. As my father was a missionary, up till then, I thought I had nothing to worry about!!!!! It was one of the first and most sobering moments in my spiritual life! Would I know if God spoke to me? Hmmm. I really didn't know. It became a milestone in my thinking - that she had said one could know but one that might not know, was also possible....? If ever the ears of my heart were opened, it was at that moment.Annie,It may not be possible to have a vigorous discussion about anything that really matters to God, (and us all) without hearing a few home truths, but, I didn't hear 'mud slinging' in TS's post. I heard his(her) heart and the Holy Spirit, crying out for a deeper level of objectivity/honesty about 'ourselves' and, I heard God calling us upwards, away from the world and its systemsMaybe I'm particularly susceptible to hearing/recognising this call, as it's what God has been saying to me over the last twenty years..... not on the same points He has to you, Annie. It sounded to me as if you were challenging it, but maybe you 'heard' other things. We all listen differently. And maybe we should get used to appearing to disagree in some discussions here. It is only possible to say one thing at a time, after all and I trust our agreement on many other vital Church issues..... However, without doubt we are different parts of the Body, and I don't expect to 'see' what you see; and as a result, I don't expect to 'sound' like you, either. :-PSome people are going to speak with a trumpet voice (to the Church), and that is their obedience to the Lord. What they do in private, when their right hand shouldn't know what their left hand is doing, will also come to light one day, but the Lord will judge that.Finally, I should say that as a mostly out-of-church Christian who is not in the US, I cannot comment on the state of the American church. But, I think it takes a certain amount of God-given bravery for an American to be so bold, and I respect any attempt to speak out what God has given to such an heart.

Oops, have to break a promise I made to someone that I'd go to bed. It appears while I was promising that, some much activity took place in my fussing with emails.Krispy did not have to be singled out for anyone to make their long point here. All are welcome to discourse for pages.And make their posts as long as they desire, as you did.That much answers your question if I could not find something positive in the "leading post".What may be "another discussion" is already in the Word. We are commanded to be His Ambassadors. His representives on earth, by whatever means possible to us. And He is more than willing to show us where to go if we'd open our ears long enough to hear Him.I am well aware where there are "healings and prophecies" and they are MOSTLY seen on the MISSION fields, not in our complacent seats of self absorption.Maybe you should read that whole Revival thread to see what became of it and why I thought singling out Krispy from the mess it turned into was the strange part.We are "far from the Holy God" because we are self-consumed and are not "others minded".He took no thought for Himself, and if we tried that, we may see something happen in this world.We don't "move in the spirituals" until we get our minds off of ourselves and our own brightness and be poured out like a drink offering for the LORD'S NAME for OTHERS.Living sacrifices, until we suffer in our flesh, as Paul did. And all the Saints we read of in the Early Church in the Book of Acts ... all else is vain jangling.If we have to pray for or wait for "judgment" to get off of our seats and live out our Christianity while we still have the "freedom" to do so, the judgment is when we will not have that freedom and it will be too late.Anytime a person posts strictly Scripture, I praise my God ... but when speaking on "revival" and not including the Lost and using only those verses that point to self ... that is not enough for me and neither was using another posters name to launch a diatribe.Yes, we do see differently and I except that, as I did on Joshua's thread ... but I try to deal as much in private on these issues when I can.My passion is for the short time we have left to be a Witness and to eleviate the suffering around me, I cannot change that ... but I've seen this "tarrying" thing go on for 30 years and the smart ones from back then are on the streets now, DOING SOMETHING.I believe we are not supposed to be comfortable.Yes, I have a bed ... but I eat one meal a day and give every waking hour to God. Against Dr.s orders ... I want to burn out for Jesus and not be divided up on the side of the goats of those red scripture verses given above and don't want anyone else here to be neither.Talk is cheap sister and that is my conclusion to the matter.My sheep know My Voice and Follow.Heb 6:1,2 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. We constantly talk about "repentence" ... what on earth are we all doing out there, that we need to "find repentence" still ?Repentence is a constant mind set, not something we wait for and "then" we may have a move of God.We should have gone on by now into the deeper things. By serving the Master and dying to our comforts and self-pampering and selfish times.How much longer can we wait to do all of these things you've quoted ?The Trumpet is the few prophets that have no problem with just sticking to the Word of God and not waiting for Christ to die again and send another Pentecost.But we don't want just the Word anymore, we need to add our own.You heard one thing in that opening statement up top, I heard another.And the trumpet I'm hearing is only those that line up completely with His Word.Those out on the battle field.I also heard Krispy crying out to be set on his face.

'Deep calleth unto deep...'

Tears_of_Joy,Thanks. I've just started to read the text version of this. It dates from 1982 in Canada, and ties in very well with Rahman's thread on poverty (I think).When I read TS's post, the part of a verse which came to me was 'the Spirit of the Lord shall raise up a standard.' I didn't know where to find it, but, this David Wilkerson message is based partly on that chapter in Isaiah (59). Here's the verse from Young's:19 And they fear from the west the name of Jehovah, And from the rising of the sun--His honour, When come in as a flood doth an adversary, The Spirit of Jehovah hath raised an ensign against him.

Annie,It may not be possible to have a vigorous discussion about anything that really matters to God, (and us all) without hearing a few home truths, but, I didn't hear 'mud slinging' in TS's post. I heard his(her) heart and the Holy Spirit, crying out for a deeper level of objectivity/honesty about 'ourselves' and, I heard God calling us upwards, away from the world and its systemsAmen! That's what I saw.Krispy did not have to be singled out for anyone to make their long point here. All are welcome to discourse for pages.Well, I think he/she didn't mean to single at Krispy, but he does make himself known on the situation. And at the same time, I don't think that the 'root' of the issue is the 'WOF' movement. Weither right or wrong, that's not the discussion.The post is about 'do you love your brother. or do you throw a rod before anything'. And in all truth. we are to love ALL mankind, everyone, Pharisees, demon-possessed, and hard-hearted sinner, we are to love them all the same. But to TS it seems that we aren't known for our love, and I think ANYONE with eyes (natural) can see that we (as a whole) don't have that love. It's EVEN rare among the 'remnant' of God's saints.Talk is cheap sister and that is my conclusion to the matter.(Annie said)Only if that would be preached!!Now, I had a vision of a 'drama skit' while I was reading TS's post. I thought it was quite meaningful and I will definatly be be praying that someone may use it.Imagine 2 Christians debating. Yelling at each others, over lunch. And then someone comes in and points the gun to one of their heads. And says 'Prepare to die'. The shotter, has no motives, just mad. And the other Christian, in a split second pushes the other guy out of the way and gets shot instead, and then the shooter kills both of them.(skit over)Would you be willing to take a bullet for the one you 'condemn' or debate? This convicted me. Not because of the 'church prophesy' some of you know about, in my life. But instead it reminded me of a time when I used to debate this Calvinist over Calvinism and Arminianism. I never even heard of each belief system until I met him, but none-the-less I defended my little knowledge of both and he classified me as an Arminian. We debated for HOURS, NUMEROUS HOURS. I wasted time with him, we were at numerous points yelling at our computers (debates were online, and I knew him personally) And I thought to myself during most of the times 'I'm wasting my time, we need to do something together.....and... do I really love this kid?' The answer was no then. Now, would it be different, with much denial of self, I think it would be possible. (And I pray that God will finish the work He started on loving people UNCONITIONALLY)To really take the bullet for someone (like in the scene above) you have to FULLY love that person. You can't 'somewhat' love them, like my feelings for that young brother. When a split second decision is made, that's when you find out what your made of. Your TRUE feelings. If you hesistate, you will miss your time to act and the other person will die. You must be, again, FULLY conviced of your love for the brethern. And I think Wesley, Wigglesworth, Lake, Edwards, Murray, Wilkerson and any 'revivalist' that saw people come into the Kingdom and preach 'hard' messages, HAD that man-tality. If not(not saying i'm wrong, but just trying to make a point), may God give us what they didn't have! THAT HEART OF LOVEMy heart's prayer: Lord I PRAY! Take off our religious masks, me personally with that 'calivinist' but above all, God work in our lives indivually so that we may LOVE one another above all.That we will seek Love ABOVE! being 'right'. And seek Truth earnestly, but let's COVET love! Let it be our hearts Father. Being 'right' will fail, but LOVE never fails!

Joshua,You're the one who rebuked me in that PM for posting World Missionary Press on a Revival thread, that I mentioned on the Treasures in Heaven thread.You're going to tell me about "taking a bullet for someone" ?Have I seen either of you lone-rangers taking a bullet for anyone of us here lately, except for each other ?And you're going to teach us about LOVE ? After upsetting us all here just last week ?You and Dorcas haven't cared about Unity these two weeks at all and these two posts have opened my eyes even further to how lone-rangers work. I'm not too old to learn new things everyday here. And I've learned a lot today. Talk is cheap and that is my conclusion to the matter.

THIS is what stirred up the hornets nest today on this thread.It took some hours to pray to ask God, "What on earth has happened here ?"Now I see .... Our burden for the lost and all that's in this post, has caused heels to be raised against this message.God forgive us if we seek Revival without a burden for souls or see WHAT DETERMINES the Sheep from the Goats in these verses.This was the post that caused this stirring against me or the message ?I feel with all of my heart, it's the message of our selfish prayers, endless talk and lack of GOING OUT TO GET THEM is the problem.We won't see Revival if we don't see and ask for HIS HEART and that is in this post, that I was corrected for by 'friends'.NO, Give me souls or I shall die.These Red Verses Determine our Salvation and pleads that none of us be found on the left side of the Throne on that Day.MeAgain wrote:And still the "Heart of God" for OTHERS is missing in your post, just as many who seek "this revival" are missing in Christ's Words to "go out into the highways and bi-ways and compel them to come in"."Give me souls or I shall die" is the cry of Christ's heart and not more "talk" and self-righteous mud-slinging.All I see in these dissertations are prayers and Scriptures aimed at "self" and not for 'The Witness' to the lost that watch our posts as we type them and are waiting out in the hospitals, and Nursing Homes, and Orphanages, and Prisons, and Homeless Shelters, and all over the globe for us to witness Christ's Love, compassion and Salvation to them.Where is this TS and could you not find one post on that whole Revival thread that you could have used as an example of what Jesus' Heart is crying out for, or only what our own lazy, self-righteous hearts desire for spiritual glamore ?"Love" is not mud-slinging to show what "Love" is .... it is being a sheep found in John 10 and, Mat 25:31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:Mat 25:32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats: Mat 25:33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left. Mat 25:34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: Mat 25:35 For I was hungry, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Mat 25:36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Mat 25:37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink? Mat 25:38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee? Mat 25:39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? Mat 25:40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me. Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels: Mat 25:42 For I was hungry, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink: Mat 25:43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not. Mat 25:44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee hungry, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee? Mat 25:45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. Mat 25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Annie,Now I see .... Our burden for the lost and all that's in this post, has caused heels to be raised against this message.I honestly don't think so. I was addressing a completely different part of your message to readers and was frankly amazed that you did not seem to follow what I meant by my quotes. I shall try to be clearer in future.I don't believe anyone on SI is against the salvation of souls, and/or isn't trying to fulfil the ministry the Lord has given them. It is the Lord who calls labourers into His harvest field, whether they go or not. Others, obedient to their calling, are not 'wrong' for not being reapers....John 4:36 And he that reapeth receiveth wages, and gathereth fruit unto life eternal: that both he that soweth and he that reapeth may rejoice together. There are many other ministries and parts of the Body edifying one another in love, that it may increase - under the direction of the Head, Who is the only One who really knows who needs what; and I include myself there as one who may need something I have not yet identified.... But I'm open to hear from Him... and I am listening.Could I remind you respectfully that I was not responding to the Revival Idolatry thread which I had not, and may not, read? I was responding to one post, which, completely out of context, still spoke to my heart and spirit. That's all.

dorcas wrote:I don't believe anyone on SI is against the salvation of souls, and/or isn't trying to fulfil the ministry the Lord has given them. I haven't indited the "SI" here.Greg and others are talking Open Air etc..No need to be "clearer" on my behalf.Those verses in red are for all of us.I didn't write those.So long friend.

Annie, I have something to say. But I don't want it to come off wrong. So, I will be looking forward to posting it within the next week. (7 days) I just need to make sure 'emotion' and anything of the flesh is out of the post.May the Lord bless our hearts, so that we may above ALL love one another.

A quote from Revival Idolatry ... the thread that prompted this thread.MeAgain wrote:I'm "touched and brought to tears" too, when I see UNITY on here, not using other posters as a launching field for our own discources. Especially people we don't know very well.Being One Body means a lot to me, but of late I've seen a few trying to tear at that, and God did not MOVE on the people in Acts, until they were in one accord and like minded, with One Burden. That's when the God Added to the Church daily, those that should be saved.

YeshuaIsMyGd wrote:Annie, I have something to say. But I don't want it to come off wrong. So, I will be looking forward to posting it within the next week. (7 days) I just need to make sure 'emotion' and anything of the flesh is out of the post.May the Lord bless our hearts, so that we may above ALL love one another.Joshua, will you come back at me with more "destruction" and "judgments" than all your posts and your PMs have already done to me ?I ask you again to go back to page one and read my posts and accuse me in public of what your PMs have just said.If a burden for the lost is my crime and not wanting to see a brother get hurt and "taking the bullet" for him, as YOU said we should do .... is wrong .... then speak on young man, speak on."Go into the highways and byways and compel them to come in" got lost somewhere on page one here. The two witnesses have spoken against it, so I must stand corrected now.So be it.