INTERCESSION

Is it ok to ask members of the church to pray for you?on your behalf

Absolutely! If the Apostle Paul could ask church members for prayer, we should too.Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, (Eph 6:18-19)Now I beseech you, brethren, for the Lord Jesus Christ's sake, and for the love of the Spirit, that ye strive together with me in your prayers to God for me; (Rom 15:30)Ye also helping together by prayer for us, that for the gift bestowed upon us by the means of many persons thanks may be given by many on our behalf. (2Co 1:11)Brethren, pray for us. (1Th 5:25)It is one of our greatest duties and privileges to intercede for one another.In Christ,Ron

definitely! That is what family is supposed to do. By the way, we can pray for you here too. :-D

so my next question is,those member of the church who passed on from this world,to be with the lord,are they still member of the church, what I am trying to state,does the church cease to exist,after parting this world?or is it every lasting,and if so this be the case.do the members of the church past and present still pray for us who are still on earth?

Very good question, Greenquality. There are a lot of things we wonder about the other side. I think that someone who is in the family of God, continues to be, once they have gone on to be with Him. I don't believe the church ceases to exist, because we will live in Eternity with Jesus and the Father. Jesus Himself, intercedes for us daily before the Throne of God. I'm not sure if the ones who past on pray for us. It is hard to imagine what it would be like to be in God's Presence. Perhaps they can do nothing but worship HIM.....

Quote...((((I'm not sure if the ones who past on pray for us.)))) Read rev, 5:8 and 8:3-4... so yes it is safe to say....... the House of prayer those of the Church.... the saints still pray, all rejoice in Heaven over one who was lost, and now is Saved.

Read rev, 5:8 and 8:3-4... so yes it is safe to say....... the House of prayer those of the Church.... the saints still pray, all rejoice in Heaven over one who was lost, and now is Saved.Can see where this is leading and would have to say this, though the verses you mentioned from Revelation show that those in heaven are somehow employed, in ways unknown to us, in presenting the prayer of saints (as incense rising), nothing is ever said about them interceding for us. But we are clearly instructed in the Bible to pray to God alone and that Jesus alone is our intercessor in heaven. The saints in heaven are busy praising God, we should be busy praying to Him.And I John saw these things, and heard them. And when I had heard and seen, I fell down to worship before the feet of the angel which shewed me these things. Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God. (Rev 22:8-9)Also, here is a clip from Albert Barnes' commentary on Rev 5:8...Which are the prayers of saints - Which represent or denote the prayers of saints. Compare Psa_141:2, “Let my prayer be set forth before thee as incense.” The meaning is, that incense was a proper emblem of prayer. This seems to have been in two respects:(a)\tas being acceptable to God - as incense produced an agreeable fragrance; and,(b)\tin its being wafted toward heaven - ascending toward the eternal throne.In Rev_8:3, an angel is represented as having a golden censer: “And there was given unto him much incense, that he should offer it with the prayers of all saints upon the golden altar which was before the throne. The representation there undoubtedly is, that the angel is employed in presenting the prayers of the saints which were offered on earth before the throne. See the notes on that passage. It is most natural to interpret the passage before us in the same way. The allusion is clearly to the temple service, and to the fact that incense was offered by the priest in the temple itself at the time that prayer was offered by the people in the courts of the temple. See Luk_1:9-10. The idea here is, therefore, that the representatives of the church in heaven - the elders - spoken of as “priests” Rev_5:10, are described as officiating in the temple above in behalf of the church still below, and as offering incense while the church is engaged in prayer.It is not said that they offer the prayers themselves, but that they offer incense as representing the prayers of the saints. If this be the correct interpretation, as it seems to be the obvious one, then the passage lays no foundation for the opinion expressed by Prof. Stuart, as derived from this passage (in loco), that prayer is offered by the redeemed in heaven. Whatever may be the truth on that point - on which the Bible seems to be silent - it will find no support from the passage before us. Adoration, praise, thanksgiving, are represented as the employment of the saints in heaven: the only representation respecting prayer as pertaining to that world is, that there are emblems there which symbolize its ascent before the throne, and which show that it is acceptable to God. It is an interesting and beautiful representation that there are in heaven appropriate symbols of ascending prayer, and that while in the outer courts here below we offer prayer, incense, emblematic of it, ascends in the holy of holies above. The impression which this should leave on our minds ought to be, that our prayers are wafted before the throne, and are acceptable to God.In Christ,Ron

so you are saying..., that when it comes to prayer...,we only pray on our behalf,..and not the behalf of those in the body of the church,.......and that the prayer of the saints in rev, are just being represented as smoke from incence,... and not litterary prayer them -self's just as a symbol or a FIG of speach,...I thought prayer's are like sweet smelling incence To God. show me where the duty or role of the body of the Church,...changes or it's members,when they pass?....... dose the role of the church stop to exist? OR are they =the church alive in Christ,just as those who=church are alive on earth in Christ..... is not praying= Asking,Thanking and Praising.. does this stop in Heaven,

I'm leading this in a fashion, those who are alive in christ are in fact alive! Christ is the Head of the Church. we as the Church the Body of Christ,the branch of the true vine, submit to the Head of the Church.we are told to pray for other.does this stop in Heaven.? think about it.why is so hard to comprehend.I know that the members of the body of Christ,who are no longer here on earth are praying with out end for us and those who might be saved!thur the Grace of our Lord Christ.

so you are saying..., that when it comes to prayer...,we only pray on our behalf,..and not the behalf of those in the body of the church,.......and that the prayer of the saints in rev, are just being represented as smoke from incence,... and not litterary prayer them -self's just as a symbol or a FIG of speach,...I thought prayer's are like sweet smelling incence To God. show me where the duty or role of the body of the Church,...changes or it's members,when they pass?....... dose the role of the church stop to exist? OR are they =the church alive in Christ,just as those who=church are alive on earth in Christ..... is not praying= Asking,Thanking and Praising.. does this stop in Heaven,With all due respect, I believe you are clouding the issue here. Here's the one question you should ask yourself, why would I want to pray to anyone other than God when He is waiting to hear and answer prayer? The Lord Jesus has brought us near by a new and living way, access to the holiest by His blood, why would you rather pray to dead men than to the living, prayer-answering God?"Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need." Hebrews 4:16As far as asking for prayer goes, I'm going to ask those whom I know can hear me.;-) In Christ,Ron

in the light,maybe you don't understand the Question,I'm not asking or posting about praying to anyone!!! you have avoided my Question, but I tryed to have a conversation, with some thought provoking ideas. and you change the subject!......... those dead men that you talk about......,are they members of the body of Christ?....... or is this another figure of speach?[font=Arial]in the light, are we alive in Christ or Dead,when a member of the Church passes? is the Church made voild and it's members in Heaven?[/font]

I will make it simple because it is,Do the Saints who are in Heaven, do they pray for us,who are on the earth?

I'm not asking or posting about praying to anyone!!!I believe that your doctrine clearly leads to this in the end. You can say you're not praying to anyone but I've seen the images and prayer cards for the saints, it sure looks like worship to me. If it looks like a duck, and walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it might just be a duck.;-)I will make it simple because it is,Do the Saints who are in Heaven, do they pray for us,who are on the earth?I believe I have already answered this in a previous post in this thread. As I posted before, the Bible clearly teaches that we should pray for one another but, nowhere in the Bible do I find anything that says we should ask someone in heaven to pray for us. The Bible gives absolutely no indication that Mary or anyone else in heaven can even hear us. Mary and the saints are not omniscient, how could they possibly hear the prayers of millions of saints? Whenever the Bible mentions speaking with the dead it is always in the context of sorcery and witchcraft, activities which the Bible strongly condemns. It seems very clear that there is a great difference between asking a brother or sister for prayer here on earth and asking a dead person for prayer, the former has a strong Biblical basis, the latter has no Biblical basis.Only God can hear and answer prayer.In Christ,Ron

Greenquality wrote:so you are saying..., that when it comes to prayer...,we only pray on our behalf,..and not the behalf of those in the body of the church,.......and that the prayer of the saints in rev, are just being represented as smoke from incence,... and not litterary prayer them -self's just as a symbol or a FIG of speach,...I thought prayer's are like sweet smelling incence To God. show me where the duty or role of the body of the Church,...changes or it's members,when they pass?....... dose the role of the church stop to exist? OR are they =the church alive in Christ,just as those who=church are alive on earth in Christ..... is not praying= Asking,Thanking and Praising.. does this stop in Heaven,Greenquality, In my understanding the prayers referred to in Revelation are the prayers of the saints on earth, not in heaven. It is also my understanding that the members of the Body that pass before Christ comes again, join the cloud of witnesses in heaven. You should ask your brothers and sisters in Christ here on earth to pray for you, as well as pray to God on your own behalf.

why can't any of you answer a simple question,((lets get one thing straight I'm not asking for any one pray for me.))[font=Arial]I will ask again, does the role of the church stop to exits? in Heaven[/font]

In the light, so your saying when the bible speak of the dead,that involes withcraft etc...,so when brother and sister pass they are dead...the dead are dead... where is your faith ,what do you believe in a God of the dead? or aGod of living! are Abrahamm, Moses and Isaac dead also? Remember the transfigration,... who appeared with are Lord?? and talking with Him???... Moses and Elias... (in the light) you believe that the dead are dead so how can this be?? ....how could peter hear what the dead are saying?, he can't!.... because Moses and Elias are Alive and talking!!!

Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.Mar 12:27 He is not the God of the dead, but the God of the living: ye therefore do greatly err.Luk 20:38 For he is not a God of the dead, but of the living: for all live unto him.

)why can't any of you answer a simple question,((lets get one thing straight I'm not asking for any one pray for me.))I will ask again, does the role of the church stop to exits? in HeavenPlease, lets discuss this calmly and with patience for one another. I believe that it is reasonable to say the answer to this particular question depends on which 'role' we are looking at. For example, one huge role of the church is very clear...Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen. (Mat 28:19-20)It would seem logical to me that this particular role of the church no longer exists in heaven. Of course, the Bible is largely silent on the role of saints in heaven other than to mention their praise and worship before the throne. So I guess the best answer would be that the role of the church does not cease to exist in heaven but it is reasonable to assume the role of the church does change in heaven.In the light, so your saying when the bible speak of the dead,that involes withcraft etc...,so when brother and sister pass they are dead...the dead are dead... where is your faith ,what do you believe in a God of the dead? or aGod of living! are Abrahamm, Moses and Isaac dead also? Remember the transfigration,... who appeared with are Lord?? and talking with Him???... Moses and Elias... (in the light) you believe that the dead are dead so how can this be?? ....how could peter hear what the dead are saying?, he can't!.... because Moses and Elias are Alive and talking!!!Forgive me but this medium has it's limitations and I'm not sure I understand all of what you are trying to say here. Let me just say that there seems to be some confusion as to what I said about speaking to the dead. First, by 'dead' I mean those who are no longer walking the earth in a physical body. This would include the "dead in Christ". Now, I cannot think of a instance in the Bible of anyone speaking to a dead saint in heaven other than the strange case of the witch calling up Samuel from the dead at Saul's behest, that is why I mention the witchcraft connection. Moses and Elijah on the mount came down from heaven to speak with Jesus on earth. Also, they are both unique cases I believe. Elijah never died, he was carried body and soul into heaven. The Bible does say that Moses died but then there is the strange and very unique circumstance of the devil and Michael fighting over his body. It is possible he was immediately resurrected after death. Conjecture I know, but possible, and many Jews have the notion that Moses is not dead but ascended. Regardless, their appearance on earth is a symbol to show that Jesus is the end of the law and prophets and I don't see how it can be related to saints praying for us in heaven.In Christ,Ron

Joshua, I agreeIn Truth if Christ is our new life and we are in Christ, when we die it says we are present with the Lord, and I would much rather Have Christ and the Holy Spirit presenting my loved one's need to the Father than anyone else, dead or alive. If God needs me to pray for someone I am sure He will let me know, especially when He knows what we need before we even think or ask. Something I have always wondered about is did Moses change God's Mind when he prayed? I don't believe so but the Jury is still out on this one for me. If you think this is another cat chasing its tail, Its droped.In Christ: Phillip